IANAL but in my reading of the text of the bill the only way for a married woman that took her partner’s last name (that wasn’t in the military with her married name) to be able to vote if this becomes law is for them to spend at least $30 to get a USA Passport card. This would tick all the boxes the bill requires for these women:
- Government ID
- Shows citizenship status (by nature of it being a Passport)
- Shows place of birth
- Shows the married last name
…or as I’m calling it:
This is violation of the 24th Amendment banning poll Taxes.
In this case, its a required fee married women must pay to be able to use their Constitutional guaranteed right to vote granted by the 19th Amendment. How is this not a poll tax by another name on married women?
It always seems to me that this wouldn’t be such a big problem if the US had a working bureaucracy. I know $30 can be a significant sum (plus the pictures and other expenses) but it would be less of a hurdle if
- relevant offices were within reasonable distance
- they were sufficiently manned
- all or part of the process could be done online
- the government actually strives to make these processes as user-friendly as possible
This is something Americans rarely talk about because it’s just assumed that everybody knows? Maybe somebody could explain to a EU dweller.
edit: maybe I didn’t phrase this properly. I’m fully aware that preventing people from voting has a long “tradition” in the US; my question was more general I guess, and meant as an “in addition to the points already mentioned”.
Those in power absolutely know these things but making things more difficult is the actual point. Voter fraud is extremely rare. The justification is all bull shit.
It’s ultimately about preventing people who might vote Democrat from voting. If it affects a ton of Republican voters that’s fine so long as it hits disproportionately more Democrats.
It always seems to me that this wouldn’t be such a big problem if the US had a working bureaucracy.
As a European I have no expectation you’d had this nugget of US history, but I can fill in the gap. After slavery was outlawed in the entire USA in the 1850s (post civil war) racist bigots enacted laws preventing black Americans from using their newly gained Constitutional rights. There were lots of examples of this. In many of the southern state local leaders instituted poll taxes, which was a required fee that someone would have to pay before being able to vote, but these same laws gave exemptions to anyone whose grandfather had voted in a prior election. Because whites had a long history of voting they were exempt from these taxes. Because newly freed slaves whose grandfathers had not been allowed to vote hadn’t, the poll tax applied only to blacks. This disenfranchisement was deliberate on the part of white leaders with the intent to suppress black voting.
This is obviously fairly fucked up way to run a country, so the people of the USA passed an amendment to the US Constitution banning poll taxes on everyone. This is the 24th Amendment (passed in 1964). Better late than never.
So this new requirement on married women to pay at least $30 to get a passport card is a de facto poll tax which is outlawed by our Constitution (24th Amendment) also because it violates the 19th Amendment (the one that gave women the right to vote) as this law specifically targets married women (and not married men).
You’re absolutely correct, but Donald Trump dgaf about the constitution, at most he sees it as an inconvenience, something that other people have to do or something to wave like a flag, not something for him personally to actually obey. And the scotus has no intention whatsoever of holding him to it.
Consider this too. A woman has all of her ducks in a row with her married last name, and then divorces her POS republican husband. Now she needs to re-establish her identity all over again.
For the ladies out there (or anyone getting married) keep your last name. My partner kept theirs, and it tickles them pink when the systemic chauvinism gets reversed and I get called by their last name.
But doesn’t this mean you now have to get a passport card if you took their last name?
They could do that but besides still being shitty, it may not satisfy the 19th Amendment. The text of the Amendment read:
- The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.
Making married women jump through the arduous hoops of obtaining a passport card (and indirect costs associated with it such as postage and photography costs) could still be possibly considered “abridged” in violation of this Constitutional Amendment. This is especially true when this new bill effectively singles out married women. Married men don’t have to do any of this so it could also still be a violation on the “on account of sex” portion of the Amendment.
here’s the issue.
There’s been a tax on the second amendment for decades. Having to pay the fees for licensing, and the classes, means there’s a cost to exercise the right. Since people with no knowledge about the subject made sure to make it as expensive as possible to enjoy a right, the psychopaths in office now have precedent.
one cannot tax one right and hand wave another. So . which do you think will fall first?
Is there an amendment that bans a tax on gun ownership?
If not, then your argument has no standing
is there an Amendment that bans a tax on any right?
if not then your argument has no standing.
Point is, requiring people to pay to exercise rights is now enshrined. and we watched it happen.
Dont stop! I’m playing sad violin music to back you up! keep typing, think of the children who wont get to fire guns without your continued effort.
Jesus Christ what’s the matter with you! I didn’t think id see the same type of insulting children here as on reddit. What ever happened to civil discourse?
So which amendment bans taxes on gun ownership. Must have missed that one.
There’s been a tax on the second amendment for decades. Having to pay the fees for licensing, and the classes, means there’s a cost to exercise the right.
I looked at the receipt for a recent gun purchase, a rifle, and there are zero taxes or fees on it except sales tax which applies to nearly all items (such as video games or automobiles) for sale. There were no required licenses or classes to purchase or own this firearm.
in your state. Where I am there are requirements for everything. from buying ammo to getting separate licenses for long guns and pistols.
the weapon itself is not what I’m talking about. of course that’s taxable.
I have multiple guns. Never paid for a class, don’t need a license. Only cost was in the guns and ammo. Now, I WAS taught at an early age how to handle guns safely, and am damn near brainwashed to handle them thusly (I never leave a bullet in chamber and I still clear my weapons every time I even touch them.) That said, I do need to stop being a lazy ass and finish building my ak47 instead of leaving it half assembled. Still needs a couple of American parts and I will not risk being dinged with an illegally built firearm.
I love how they never once mention in the article that Republicans wrote the bill, proposed it, and 100% of them voted in favor of it.
But, despite all that…the headline still reads, “Democrats passed it”.
The fact that Republicans want to take away peoples’ ability to vote isn’t really news, but the fact that any Democrats supported it is.
It fucking should be news, and anyone trying to shift blame to Democrats is a goddamn shill.
To be fair it has been news, for the 20+ years they’ve been doing it. When I say ‘it’s not news’ I don’t mean ‘it’s not newsworthy’ - it absolutely is - just that it should not be surprising to anyone, so focusing on democrat support for it is definitely the bigger deal and should definitely be the headline. Those 4 democrats are not ‘to blame’ for this, it would have passed anyway, but their complicity with fascism should absolutely be reported and remembered.
I mean, you’re right that Republicans taking away people’s rights should be news. It should be the topmost article on a newspaper.
Right under that though should be the news about how the supposed opposition party caved in to the Republicans by agreeing and voting in favor, thereby increasing the Republicans’ effective party size in the House.
Democratic representatives not representing their constituents should be news, but of course that news is as old as printing itself, much longer.
the fact that any Democrats supported it is
No one paying attention would have expected anything different. Its been 13 years since the VRA was struck down and democrats have done nothing meaningful, other than fundraise, off protecting voting rights. Doing nothing is worse than taking rights.
Doing nothing is worse than taking rights.
No, the latter is absolutely still worse.
Try to primary them and see how fast the Democratic establishment is to come to their defense. “Democrats” is fair. Not all Democrats, but the party establishment is rotten.
Try to primary them and see how fast the Democratic establishment is to come to their defense
Who fucking cares what the establishment says. The nominees is whoever won the primary vote.
Which, far too often, is whomever has the most money. The Democratic establishment and AIPAC have successfully flooded progressives out in several races. It’s not that we can’t win, but it’s clear that the party is against us, which was my point. It’s not just a handful of shitty Democrats we need to replace.
It really shouldn’t be news, but remember…there are most likely a lot of morons out there who would still be shocked to hear about it. The ones who don’t like to talk or read about politics, the uninformed voter. These are Americans we’re talking about.
Honest question, if those four hadn’t voted for it, would the bill have failed?
so the site wrote a shitty headline just to get clicks? nah, that never happens.
Republicans tell us who they are, so theres no need to point out what theyve already told us. Democrats however always claim to hold the high ground as if they are not collaborators in regressive legislation.
So the trick to getting away with doing shit like this is to just be open about it? Weird. If that was the case, then why not give these Democrats a pass, as well? They aren’t exactly hiding it either.
Or are you just getting these four mixed up with the 200 others that didn’t support this legislation?
When are you doing to hold these fucking pro-Trump Democrats accountable? So such of the constant whining and crying every time the Democrats are called out on their bullshit.
What’s Anyone doing to hold Republicans accountable?
The headline should read 216 Republicans ensured passage of this bill.
My God, part of everything we deal with these days is no one holds Republicans accountable. Media, voters, commenters, etc. Maybe try that for once instead of focusing on 4 Democrats who DON’T MATTER.
I’m fine calling out the 2% of Democrats that vote against their own constituents interests. But what I find hilarious, is the total lack of focus on the fact that 100% of Republicans are behind this.
This is what Chomsky was talking about when he wrote manufacturing consent. The framing here is massively deceptive, to the point of being completely backwards…and folks just eat it up this way. They swallow this narrative whole, and spit it back up for others to swallow.
“Four democrats passed this,” but we are just going to ignore the 216 conservatives that passed it?
So when do we get to start calling bullshit like this propaganda?
Everyone already knows all the republicans supported it; anything under their jurisdiction is already a lost cause. What I want to know is how many people from the “left” party can’t even keep their own votes on the right side of history. It’s not news when villains are villains - it’s news when the people who say they’re here to fight back against the villains are caught supporting them, and it’s important not to drown out that important detail among a bunch of already-known regressives. People need to see that the current democratic party isn’t a viable defense against conservativism, and that we need to do something more to get things moving in the right direction again than simply trusting democrats to fix everything.
I get what you’re saying… but have a hard time accepting that just because, conserves are being conservatives, it’s seemingly fine that they do villain-shit. We’ll just be outraged at the audacity of four idiot democrats that voted in lock-step with them.
ALL of them need to be held accountable.
But here, when all I see are people ignoring the villains, it makes me wonder why I ever bothered to question how we got here.
Conservatives have survived on their ability to never be held accountable for what they do. And seeing everyone focused on holding four democrats responsible for their joint effort with 16 conservatives and not even mentioning the assholes that drew this up to begin with-
I guess it all makes more sense now how thoroughly we are fucked.
It’s totally Democrats fault.
Everyone expects the scorpion to stab the frog, it’s in its nature.
Everyone expects Republicans to be totally corrupt monsters.
The people we are supposed to depend on to fight monsters keep helping them pass bills when they could be blocking them.
This means they are complicit. There’s always enough traitors to make the bad things pass, never enough cooperation to make the good things pass when they have a majority.
The Democrats have been playing this game for too long and it’s saf you haven’t started to notice too.
Easier to paste my response to someone else that responded with the same thing:
I have a hard time accepting that just because, conserves are being conservatives, it’s seemingly fine that they do this shit. We’ll just all be outraged at the audacity of four idiot democrats that voted in lock-step with them.
All of them need to be held accountable. ALL of them.
But here, when all I see are people ignoring the villains, it makes me wonder why I ever bothered to question how we got here.
Conservatives have survived on their ability to never be held accountable for what they do. And seeing everyone focused on holding four democrats responsible for their joint effort with 16 conservatives and not even mentioning the assholes that drew this up to begin with-
I guess it all makes more sense now how thoroughly we are fucked.
It’s totally Democrats fault.
Except that’s not what’s happening. The Republicans voted like you’d expect them to vote, hence not news. The so-called Democrats betrayed what their voters expected of them.
Same reason it’s new when a small number of Republicans voted against the rest of the party and Trump.
It’s my fucking party that I’m a fucking registered member of. Don’t tell me I can’t be madder at them for literally stabbing me in the back instead of fighting my opposition like they were supposed to do.
It’s a perfectly justified reaction to be madder at betrayal. Don’t be a clueless moron.
People expect the representative they voted for to vote how they want. Conservatives’ representative voted as they wanted. Whereas Democrats’ representative voted against their wishes. Hence the outrage.
This is a simplistic explanation, 4 Democratic representative might have voted as their constituents have demanded.
My initial reaction to this headline was: “what now?”, and my first reaction on reading the article was “oh, it’s a continuation of the horror show that calls itself US government - not actually something that four democrats are responsible for”
So I’m totally with you. Stop the sanewashing of the continued and systematic madness rising to ever new heights of depravity, should be the headline.
Republicans built the foundation for what’s happening now for decades, and it was always like you said in your other comment: “Conservatives have survived on their ability to never be held accountable for what they do.” Well, slightly more differentiated.
This bill is yet another voter supression tool. This is what they ultimately want: you have to be rich, male, of a certain ethic, and “white” to have a say. And they’re almost there. If voting was really made easy for everyone, do you really think the GOP would still win?
This is yet another piece of codified and systemic racism, misogyny, homo- and transphobia, richism.
The hollowing out of what was once a working, relatively democratic system to a point where even the empty shell is starting to break up.
All that said, Democrats should start wielding what power they have (both in the government and in media, public opinion etc.) way more decisively. Between elections we must talk about how fucked up both parties are.
This comment (from this post) puts it best imho:
https://lemmy.world/comment/16414382
https://feddit.org/post/10702307/6001640
I’ve been calling out this propaganda since 2016. Dividing the left is an extremely successful tactic.
What do Democrats have to do with the left? Especially the Democrats in question.
Establishment Democrats have shived the left a million times and I never hear this pearl clutching about how they are “dividing the left” from folks like you. When a progressive primaries a corporate Democrat we get told that we shouldn’t mess with incumbents. When a corporate Democrat challenges a seated progressive, the establishment pumps tens of thousands of dollars into the challengers campaign.
We aren’t “dividing the left”, we are acknowledging a divide between the left and third way neoliberals. Establishment candidates want our votes and especially our donations, but then they want us to sit down and shut up.
Little-l left. As in, encompassing everyone left of center. Not “the Left”.
Calling people who voted to disenfranchise millions the 'left" is an insult.
Havent you heard the term “It goes without saying”? I just don’t need to tell you that the sun rises in the east, 2+2=4, or Republicans are evil. But apparently, some of you insist on giving a pass to Democrats, who act like they’re on our side, but continually help make things worse.
The point is that it’s all kayfabe and just enough Democrats will vote to make things worse or prevent something from getting better. If you only blame Republicans, you’re not paying attention.
but continually help make things worse
Funny how you people always conflate “not having the numbers to effectively stop Republicans” with “actively helping Republicans”. Every single time I drill down to ask what specifically the Dems did to make things worse, it’s always “they failed to stop the Republicans”.
Jared Golden, Marie Gluesenkamp Perez, Henry Cuellar, and Ed Case
Marie Gluesenkamp Perez sold out the US on another important vote at some point in the recent past. Her name was unique enough to remember. Are the other three also habitual free agents?
Yeah, they all suck. Ed Case is a world class piece of shit as he’s representing urban Honolulu, in a SOLIDLY blue district.
No Democrat should vote for a single Nazi bill, ever.
