cross-posted from: https://lemm.ee/post/42676060
China makes everything better & cheaper, not just cars.
America has more prisoners than China: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate
I don’t see what this has to do with the fact that China utilises slave labour from a religious minority group they are currently genociding to aid in their construction and manufacturing sector.
To my knowledge, you go to prison in the US when you commit a crime, as opposed to a labour camp where you are sterilised then made to build Fords under threat of death.
There’s no way in Hell a country with a population in the billions has lower incarnation numbers than one with a few hundred million. That is just statistically impossible. It all comes down to what you count as incarnated. This is like the US “solving” its unemployment crisis by not counting people who think about maybe looking for work sometime as not unemployed. These numbers are self reported, so they should be taken with a big grain of salt.
Thank you for the reference link.
China has one hell of a note on that page:
b. See info about additional detainees, and alleged detainees, at Re-education through labor, Laogai, and Xinjiang internment camps.
They also have 100x we many executions as we have, probably closer to 1000x.
The secret is heavy subsidy, very little worker protections/safety, very little environmental protection, and slave labour from a demographic they’re currently genociding.
That was my first thought, but is that much different for say Tesla. They get tax breaks and pay as low as they can. Don’t get me wrong I not protecting China’s way, I’m rather against both. But it would be interesting to see numbers from both sides
Yes it’s very different. Tesla certainly overworks their employees by basically expecting them to do overtime, and engages in anti-union shadiness, but that pales in comparison to utilising slave labour from a religious minority group they subjugate and have even been known to sterilise, as well as harm family members of those who aren’t behaving as the CCP wants them to.
Tesla still has to abide by US environmental regulations, which while not as strict as you’d find in Europe, are a hell of a lot stricter than China.
Tesla still has to follow construction and safety laws that, again while not super strict like in much of Europe, is a hell of a lot stricter than China.
The US also doesn’t subsidise exported Teslas in a move to exterminate foreign car companies before ramping up prices.
Did you just seriously try to compare China factories to Tesla? This place really is just an absurd bubble.
For reference in Mexico they are making 5k a year vs 50k. I’m sure it’s rainbows and kittens over at byd.
Don’t forget the hundreds of billions that global capitalism funneled into China by “outsourcing” absolutely everything they possibly could over the last 30-40 years — devaluing developed world labour markets and environmental regulations, and winding back the clock to an unregulated slave labour market is what made it so attractive.
Not just subsidies the CCP decides how much the car makers have to produce. They are overproducing and the Chinese market is saturated, there are graveyards full of unused EVs because nobody wants to buy last year’s lower range versions. And now they dumping that over production onto the rest of the world.
You mean cheaper and worse, there are little to no regulations and if there are any, inspectors are paid off as China is corrupt AF. and the cheaper part is because the general factory workers are kept extremity poor to uphold the cheap labor, next to the Uyghurs in concentration camps who are forced to work for free. There are no rights or regulations for factory workers, so no protective clothing or gear, no safe work environment, while working with extremity toxic materials as those are cheaper then the safer alternatives. Working 12 to 16 hours per day, as young as 8 years old, 6 to 7 days a week, no sick days, no holidays. There is no quality control. There is media control, so every online post of a spontaneously combusted EV, which are maaaaany, is removed.
So you confuse quality with quantity. Yeah, it’s cheaper. But at what cost. Not just the lives of the Chinese workers, those toxins are also in the products we use.
Not necessarily. China makes all the fancy stuff Americans are super proud of.
If safety were a real issue, the gov wouldn’t have attempted to ban them based on tariffs
Ps: your entire first paragraph could have been about American meat processors and I wouldn’t have noticed
Lol their entire comment reads like a mishmash fever-dream of state department prop. I can’t even in this thread mannn ill leave these folks to to you.
If safety wouldn’t be a real issue those products wouldn’t be banned in the EU. Regulations in the US are often very weird, loose and corrupt as well.
Nice Americans are proud of stuff. That doesn’t make it safe. Remember, there are Americans proud of Trump, guns, the cybertruck, racism, etc. “Proud” isn’t a safety standard.
Ps: Nice American meat processors are fucked up as well. The entire country is fucked up. Nice. Let’s be proud of it and everything becomes safe again
Until the brand goes poof because China didn’t like something they did and poof; now you have a ghost car. Good luck finding repair parts for your car; and fixing the server connection required features
You are correct, but that has happened with American brands (even cars) before
At half the price of other EVs, I bet an entire new class of service stores, half mechanic shop, half third party parts, half mods, would spring into existence if these cars are allowed in the market
Instead, we protect the horrible local brands
American manufacturers need to provide parts for 10 years after the last of the same model car rolled off the assembly line. Good luck forcing Chinese brands to respect that.
They’re the world’s factory, of course they’ll build better and cheaper.
They still build the only real EV truck though
Trucks are for every tradesperson that does the things you lack the time, training or tools to do when something breaks at your residence. Trucks help you move.
And if said tradesperson doesn’t want their equipment to get wet in the rain they get a van instead.
Trucks don’t do that, vans do.
In Europe every tradesperson drives a van because it is a lot more efficient and can haul way more than trucks ever can.
Vans, you’re thinking of vans. Becuase you can lock up all your expensive tools in a van, it keeps rain off your supplies, it gives you a mobile workspace with AC, and you can take out the seats or reconfigure it for the job at hand. All the tradesmen I know drive vans. All the idiots I know who want an expensive mall crawling pavement princess so they look like they could do actual work, buy trucks.
I get the criticism of the cyber truck, and the hummer EV is ridiculous, but why do the R1T and Silverado EV not count as trucks? R1T is an expensive but great midsize go anywhere truck. Silverado EV is a range king and a little flat looking, but still 100% “truck”. Lightning is just the all around best value of a truck. I say this as a lightning owner, there are options in this market.
They almost made a truck with the Silverado EV but then they had to turn it into whatever the Avalanche is supposed to be with fins coming off the cab that get in the way of things. Anyways, not to sound bitter but some people like to be able to put camper shells, tool boxes, or other accoutrement on the back.
R1T is decent, just really expensive.
Ford has been too busy selling $80,000 trucks to worry about cars and EVs.
I’ve never understood why so many people in the US buy pickups. City dwellers? Why? People in most trades? Panel van > pickup. Farmers or ranchers? Makes sense.
My employer just swapped me from a pickup with a covered rollout bed to a van. I absolutely love it! Slightly less comfortable ride, but carries more parts and it’s all more accessible, especially if it’s raining or snowing. So this is why many companies have been using vans for so long…
Utility, can carry tall stuff, and can carry messy stuff without worrying about dirtying up the inside of a vehicle. Rain will wash a pickup bed out. At least that’s why I have one, hauling stuff, working around my property, hauling trash. But mine is a 1995.
I/my business have owned 4 panel vans. One was an IVECO that had a 5+m long by 2+m tall interior. I’d much rather haul a tall load enclosed. If I ever needed to haul something taller, I could always rent a pickup or a real truck, and not being saddled by the pickup’s shortcomings everyday.
Pickups have their uses, and I never denied that, I just say that most pickups don’t do pickup duty, and that a lot do panel van duty.
An assessment of the global electric vehicle market and Ford merited one lukewarm, brief sentence. At the time, Farley was the Executive Vice President and President of Global Markets. If that sounds like a job that would require paying close attention to China’s reality and increasing competitiveness, it is. If that sounds like a job that should understand disruptive innovation’s death knell for firms like Ford, it is. If that sounds like a job that should have been creating strategy to deal with the reality of China’s emerging electric vehicle juggernaut, it is.
Auto industry mismanagement is redundant.
