Explanation: The Romans used lead-lined cookware not in ignorance of its dangers, but wholly cognizant of them - the Romans recognized lead poisoning from various sources, and regarded lead as ‘unwholesome’ to human health.
They used lead widely in many applications that they could be forgiven for thinking were not dangerous - they understood how to prevent lead leaching in pipes, and used lead in writing tablets. Less forgivably, in cosmetics. But most dangerous of all was the use of lead pots in making ‘defrutum’ - sweet wine jelly syrup, which wealthy Romans loved to put on everything. The thing is, the process uses lead specifically because other materials won’t do - copper and iron leave an aftertaste, while lead vessels actually make it sweeter, as lead itself acetate is slightly sweet.
What’s a little harmless poison in your condiments, after all?
The explanation is practically perfect, so focusing on two small tidbits:
Defrutum is not a jelly, it’s more like a syrup: grape juice reduced to a half of its volume, to concentrate flavours and as a preservation method. I’m almost sure that it was available for a wide range of people, not just wealthy ones.
(It’s also easy to prepare at home. And as long as you do it in a normal cooking pot it’s completely safe. Great to use over vanilla ice cream.)
Lead itself isn’t sweet; lead acetate is. There’s a bit of acetic acid even in grape juice, and as you boil it in the lead container both things react together.
Defrutum is not a jelly, it’s more like a syrup: grape juice reduced to a half of its volume, to concentrate flavours and as a preservation method. I’m almost sure that it was available for a wide range of people, not just wealthy ones.
I’ve seen it referred to by various terms and I’m not culinarily educated enough to tell the difference between any of the words. Syrup, jelly, must; it’s all Greek to me! I’ll fix it in my explanation though!
It was available to a wide range of people, but it was a frequent visitor primarily to the tables of the wealthy.
Lead itself isn’t sweet; lead acetate is. There’s a bit of acetic acid even in grape juice, and as you boil it in the lead container both things react together.
I’ll correct that too.
Syrup, jelly, must; it’s all Greek to me!
The main difference is texture: a jelly is firm and lumpy enough that you can hold it with the side of a knife and spread over something else (like a toast), but you’d have a really hard time pouring jelly over something by tilting the container. In the meantime a syrup is a thick liquid, so it’s runny and you can pour it over.
Traditionally, the source of that difference in texture is a substance called pectin, found in plenty fruits. Grapes do have pectin, but once you squeezed them into juice most pectin went to waste with the pomace and skins, so even if you reduce the juice for defrutum it’ll be still a runny liquid.
Must is simply grape juice, ready to be fermented into wine, although in Latin the word mustum also sometimes pops up for young wines. Additionally, in the context of Catholic masses it’s grape juice suitable for communion.
Yep!
“Water conducted through earthen pipes is more wholesome than that through lead; indeed that conveyed in lead must be injurious, because from it white lead [PbCO3, lead carbonate] is obtained, and this is said to be injurious to the human system. Hence, if what is generated from it is pernicious, there can be no doubt that itself cannot be a wholesome body. This may be verified by observing the workers in lead, who are of a pallid colour; for in casting lead, the fumes from it fixing on the different members, and daily burning them, destroy the vigour of the blood; water should therefore on no account be conducted in leaden pipes if we are desirous that it should be wholesome.”
- the Roman engineer Vitruvius, in De Architectura, written between 30 BCE-20 BCE
That’s honestly just kind of sad. Knowing the problem but ignoring it for the convenience afforded. Human nature at its finest.
‘Defrutum’ is exactly what I would name an alcoholic fruit syrup if I was a drunk Roman.
We also put lead in gasoline knowing damn well it would come out the tail pipes and people on the streets would have to breathe it. Several decades of leaded gasoline passed until someone developed an alternative to fix engine knocks. If that had never been invented we would still be pumping lead into our streets today as a “cost of life” or more realistically, a cost of doing business.
Piston aircraft still use it. Which makes it doubly annoying when some tit in a cesna decides to circle around town at 1000’.
Not just making a noise, also cropdusting with TEL.
Cars still offgas other heavy metals (arsenic, cadmium, chromium, nickel), and rhe wear from their tires also distributes heavy metals. Tractors do the same in our fields and have for decades. It’s not good. Instead of developing drones for the military, we should develop them for our food supply first.
We use Teflon-coated cookingwear even though we know it’s poison.
Yes, yes, I know, technically it’s not a problem if you don’t scratch or over-heat it. But in my experience, 99% of non-stick pans get scratched and over-heated.
Technically scratches should not be an issue, since teflon is very inert and will go through your systems without affecting anything. Over-heating it will make toxic without a question and I’ll throw out any overheated cookingwear and just get new ones.
If you’re paying attention it’s not difficult to keep the temp below the temperature where teflon starts breaking down (260°C / 533 K): sunseed oil starts smoking at 230°C, butter below 200°C and heating oils to their smoke point is already something you should avoid if you care about your health.
When you scratch it you’re making microplastics though, and they’re going right into your food.
Boy do I have something to tell you!
https://labs.waterdata.usgs.gov/visualizations/microplastics/index.html
Me using my scratched teflon pans.
That’s every “non-stick” pan after 1-2 months of daily use.
All non-stick, “scratch resistant” pans are a marketing gimmick designed to have the average consumer-moron buy 30 pans in their lifetime, than simply learn how to season pans properly and hand 2 or 3 Iron/steel pans down their family lineage for generations, across hundreds of years.
Ceramic ones are a bit better but for the most part this is correct. There really isn’t a clear reason not to cook with steel or iron, they tend to be the best options for 99.9% of applications. Only thing that I can think of is cooking eggs at a lower temp, but iron does that fine if the seasoning is really good.
😏 be like me and use a cast iron skillet that weighs a ton, never is slick like you see on the internet, and is a removed (really Lemmy? Auto censor?? FFS) to clean
In all seriousness, I just made scrambled eggs on the ol’ beast and they turned out decent. Far from non stick but it’s non cancer at least.
(really Lemmy? Auto censor?? FFS)
That’s your instance, ml is a turd like that.
I have no clue how Lemmy works. I made an account and just assumed that was that.
Instances to avoid if you dislike censorship or state run propoganda:
Lemmy ml
Slrpnk net
Hexbear
Lemmygrad
Beehaw (not state run, but very “family friendly” strictness)
P.S. I’ve tested like 58 wizard swears over on 196 bahaj and they only censor Faggot, which is on brand.
Also, a lot of nonstick pan coatings are incredibly shortlived and end up in your food if you continue to use a scrarched pan.
I will never use Teflon again. Even using it correctly will kill a bird in the same room. Canary in a coal mine. I won’t touch the stuff. Stainless steel or cast iron.
My uncle’s parrot he had for a really long time died because he put up some kind of new shades for his living room that off gassed something deadly to birds.
He knew about not using Teflon but not about window shades, or uv resistant plastic products off gassing being hazardous. He was devastated. Some of the shit sold to us is genuinely toxic. It’s really messed up when you think about it.
Just a FYI, teflon products produced after the removal of PFOAs in 2013 are safe to use.
EDIT: Perhaps PTFE is also bad
Watch Dark Waters, the only reason PFOAs got outted was because the DuPont themselves did the reaseasch that showed if was toxic, then Robert Bilott basically dedicated his life to uncovering their coverup. The company then basically for all intents and purposes renamed PFOA so they cant be sued for selling it anymore. The F is the important part. So basically now someone would need to do a huge amount of research out of their own pocket to prove that PFTE was safe… “trust me bro” - DuPont probably
Get carbon steel as well. Similarity to cast iron but lighter and just as cheap
I bought a nonstick wok and my friends kept using steel wool and chipping it and I kept freaking out on them about it. I’m like STOP IT, I’d rather it be dirty than this!
They used to make fun of me freaking out about it.
I feel a bit vindicated with my freak outs now.
You should have thrown it away after the first chip. Anyone reading this, THROW AWAY your chipped Teflon!! Replace with cast iron
My family (parents etc) have mostly learned their lesson now after all the news coverage, but before that I used to resort to hiding my good non sticks whenever they were staying over. If my parents complained about the shitty old pans that were available, then I pulled out my very sticky nonstick ceramic pan that they had roughed up despite my protests. I’m never throwing that shitty ceramic pan away, it’s way too effective as a rhetorical ploy now.
Friends I still mostly don’t trust since I don’t know their kitchen habits well enough, but they’re less likely to try to help with cooking anyhow, only with dish washing and there it’s easy to hide the wrong sponges.
If your chipped nonstick is teflon, then it’s garbage now imo. I would never cook in it again, too risky imo.
And I now realize that I’ve become paranoid in my own kitchen.
