I know this is meant as a joke, but I have to say, it’s incredibly hard to get proper audio equipment without paying idiot tax like crazy.
I want neither China crap, nor overengineered German CD shavers (those really exist, BTW), but just decent audio. If you look for reviews, everything under 2000€ is utter garbage, apparently, and you should be sterilized for even thinking about spending less than that. Or you go on Amazon and even a brick wall will have stellar reviews, because it sounds really awesome and even has Bluetooth!
Extremely frustrating. No middle ground.
Once I reported a listing, because it was initially selling something like hair clips, got great reviews, and then somehow changed everything to a BBQ Grill whilst keeping all the old reviews.
The listing was still up a couple of months later. Half five star reviews about some random product, half bad reviews about how the grill would randomly collapse or something.
That’s if you buy the marketing. You can find very good headphones in the 200-500 range. Hell, for portable audio you can get an akg k361 and a Qudelix 5k for $230 and that’d be a pretty good setup.
I personally use either that akg headphone or the Moondrop Aria hooked up to my phone and I think it’s decent enough.
For a home setup I have a Topping DX3 Pro+ and the Hifiman Edition XS. In total that would cost around 550 I think and the quality (to my ears) is phenomenal.
And that’s already a whole lot of money for next to no value for 99% of the people.
Let’s be honest, most people listen to Spotify in a room that’s not ideal for listening. And I’m also very very certain that most of the higher end stuff (and I’m counting everything over 200€) is esoteric. You can’t hear a difference in quality. Maybe a difference, but not objectively better or worse.
Problem is, where exactly is the line? It’s almost impossible to tell whether this one speaker is garbage with a markup or actually high quality.
And more fundamentally: I can buy a brand new smartphone, with absolute top notch technology for 200€, but speakers and amplifiers, technologies that existed for decades and should be out-scienced by now still cost that much without any guarantees for quality? Sound should be a solved problem.
I’ve yet to meet a person that isn’t blown away by how much better my headphones or iems sound compared to their earbuds/laptop speakers. However, I do have to admit that several just don’t really care that much. And some of the ones that do care, can’t afford it or justify the cost.
Your comparison doesn’t make much sense and I honestly don’t even know where to begin explaining exactly how different they are. From design to production process, to shipping differences and market size. Lifespan is wildly different as well. Headphones can last you 20+ years whereas a smartphone will need to be replaced after 3 or 4.
speakers and amplifiers, technologies that existed for decades
This is why I buy used audio gear. The basic guts of the stuff hasn’t changed much in the past several decades.
I bought a nice used head unit and speakers 10 years ago. They’re 30+ years old now and still work perfectly well.
I’m not sure you read the comment fully, they suggested headphones, not speakers. Just a quiet room is enough for that. Speakers are more expensive because they have to move a lot of air in a room. I’m no expert, but I think it’s the mere physics of doing so accurately that keeps it above 200. A technology can be more or less solved without becoming sub 200.
Anyway, what’s the price range you’re looking for? I’m sure someone can recommend headphones for any range if you’re interested in those.
And that’s already a whole lot of money for next to no value for 99% of the people.
I strongly believe those people should not be thinking about audiophile gear. Thankfully, audiophile companies don’t really advertise. The claims most of those companies make are targeted towards people who are into audio, and often feature lots of solid snake oil that 99% of people would not understand. Companies that do advertise heavily tend to emphasize vague things like “deep, rich bass to accurate mids and crisp, clean highs” instead.
And I’m also very very certain that most of the higher end stuff (and I’m counting everything over 200€) is esoteric. You can’t hear a difference in quality. Maybe a difference, but not objectively better or worse.
What makes you “very very certain”? There are some quantifiable quality differences, like accurate positioning of sounds or perceived distance from the listener. It may not be necessarily worth the price, but I’m not seeing how you’re “very very certain” everything above 200 is esoteric and that it’s impossible to discern quality.
Problem is, where exactly is the line? It’s almost impossible to tell whether this one speaker is garbage with a markup or actually high quality.
Audiophile communities never suggest blind buying because even a high quality product may not have the sound signature you like. It’s similar to how a Rolls Royce, a high quality vehicle, may be too slow and comfortable for someone who would prefer a cheaper Corvette. Those in cities likely have multiple dealers who would be happy to have you come in and sample the stuff, or Best Buy. Pick something you like, regardless of price tag or recommendation. Those not in cities can get on lists of free samples that are then sent to the next listener, or buy and return from stores. Headphones.com has a 365 day return policy intended for this, though there is a restocking fee. Amazon is an unethical company and you can return large dollar quantities without fees before being blacklisted.
Speakers are harder to test if you do not have audio stores or Best Buy. I would still suggest listening when next in a city if possible. I can’t think of anything for those in areas without Best Buy and never enter one, but there might still be something.
if you use a good equalizer, you can equalize pretty much any headphone to your ideal frequency response, as long as it has a loud enough maximum volume and doesn’t have distortion (so any half-decent headphone over $50 should do fine. Some would say you can go even lower)
That’s quite a stretch. You can use an equalizer to improve the sound of a headphone but there are literal physical limitations to it. Not all drivers are equal in size or speed. Not to mention that there’s a difference in the size of their enclosures as well as the technology they use (electrostatic, planar or dynamic for example). There are lots of sound characteristics that will never change regardless of how much eq you use.
So no, a $50 dynamic headphone will not sound as good as a planar magnetic $500 one. If you think otherwise, please provide a source or at least an example.
EQ how? An accurate microphone/RTA setup will cost more than good headphones in the first place.
It is such a blessing to have unrefined taste. My brother is an audiophile and has fallen into this hole. I can’t tell the difference. I got cheap bookshelf speaks for the TV and that’s good enough for me as an upgrade from the TV built in speaker. My 15 year old PC Logitech speakers are doing great. Anker earphones had good enough reviews from soundguys.com. I listen to my brother’s speakers with his lossless music and it really makes no difference to me. It has been great for my wallet. I mostly listen to podcasts anyway.
I hear ya. I’ve got enough expensive hobbies as is, so I’m glad I dodged that one. I listen to YouTube music on Samsung Galaxy Buds Pro, I’ve got cheap Creative Pebble Pro PC speakers and it’s PERFECTLY FINE to my ears. Sure, I could spend 500 bucks on headphones and another 500 on speakers, but they just don’t give me that ‘wow’ factor to where it seems like a good investment. I’ve tried them; it wasn’t for me.
I’m also not the guy you should take to a fancy restaurant. A Domino’s pizza tastes just fine to me, so a five star Michelin restaurant would just be completely wasted on me. I’ve got exquisite taste and refinement in other areas, but I’m wholly a basic bitch in these two.
I could say a lot on this, as I’ve been in the whole premium audio/audiophile thing for a little while (I don’t buy the hype, I just want something that sounds good but doesn’t break the bank).
What I want to mention is that cd shavers have a purpose, but it’s not necessarily good for audio/audio quality. To put it simply, if a disc is unbalanced and wobbles in the reader/player, it’s prone to errors. With audio, most of these errors are correctable, and at most generate artifacts in the sound (like ticks or pops), but with faster readers, usually with data storage (like 48x or 52x cd/dvd readers) those errors can cause some significant issues where the disc needs to be re-read. The wobble of the disc due to balance issues can be a significant factor at high speeds.
Shaving a disc, which is really just trimming excess material until the disc is circularly uniform, can reduce errors and increase access speeds.
While all of this is possible, in practice, it doesn’t really matter all that much.
I will finish by saying: you won’t notice if a CD/DVD/BluRay is in balance, but you will definitely notice if it’s significantly out of balance.
https://www.rtings.com/headphones
I have used this site to buy monitors and displays. They are generally pretty objective and provide thorough data and they often document their methodology.
You can get good quality headphones for not that much money. Linsoul KZ ZS10s are surprisingly good for only $40. Grados SR-80s and Hifiman HE400s are both audiophile quality for a bit over $100.
One of these things, apparently.
https://hackaday.com/2022/09/07/improve-cd-sound-by-shaving/
This is so stupid, CDs have error correction codes. Special redundancy that fixes reading errors up to some level. If your reader is so junky that it gets uncorrectable errors, no amount of “trapping the light in the CD” is gonna change that. And even if you get some incorrect bit the player will probably try to guess it and unless your ear is some kind of specialty ultrafast tuning equipment you won’t hear the difference.
https://youtu.be/f-QxLAxwxkM?si=N9ltCiSSxgGkkdTR
Glad you asked.
Yep, it’s a big problem in audio and other subjective areas, because you have no way of knowing what the anonymous reviewer’s point of reference is, and most professional reviewers’ reference points are not suitable. It’s worse too, because purchaser-reviewers self-select into their category, so you expect most people to be satisfied with the subjective aspects of a product they’ve purchased, even though most people would not be satisfied with a random cheap product. This is all not helped by the fact that, in audio when differences are so minute, virtually no-one is conducting blind reviews so confirmation bias probably accounts for huge amounts of the final score. Sure, any professional reviewer is going to be able to identify a bum product that costs thousands, but I bet most of them will rate an identical product more highly if they’re told it costs 10x as much and comes from a fancier brand.
I’ve ended up crowdsourcing my recommendations from places like reddit where people tend to make tiered recommendation lists so you at least know they have the goal of producing the best products at each price level.
This exact thing happened in the wine world in 1976 during the “Judgment of Paris” wine-tasting event. The top wine critics in the world did a blind taste test of the best French wines and a bunch of unknown California wines. Naturally, everyone, including the critics, thought France would win hands-down. California won, shocking everyone. Before revealing the results, the judges were asked whether they thought the California or French wines had won. They all assumed that the wines they rated the highest were French, claiming they could tell which was which even while blinded. The interesting thing isn’t so much that California wines were good, but rather that the professional judges couldn’t tell the difference in a blind taste test.
Yeah, I’ve seen the same pattern with knives. If you just want a decent kitchen knife, you’ll find tons of people who are absolutely certain, that it’s physically impossible to cut anything unless the blade has been sharpened by a Japanese virgin under moonlight.
I assume, the value for money curve is a sigmoidal, where at a certain, relatively low price you get almost all the value and afterwards it only gets more expensive, but not better. But you never know, when you’ve reached the plateau.
I got a chef’s knife as a gift. I was a bit put out that came from Wilko (a very budget brand) and it turned out to be absolutely excellent. I think it won’t have cost any more than £20. I am astounded that anyone apart from professionals pays more than £100 for a knife, never mind the even more insane prices you can pay
Lots of middle ground out there.
Marantz, NAD, Cambridge Audio, and others all can put together great semi-audiophole systems. If a shop tries to upsell you on cables etc., judt tell them ‘you’re already covered.’
Meanwhile, small speakers for under $500 have never sounded better.
Or you can step up a notch and by used. I’ve got Rotel and Rega gear, which is way over-value.
It’s hard because a big part of audio is subjective. Not everyone wants flat sounding earphones or headphones. I used to browse head-fi.org. Not sure if it’s still a good source but I found a lot of good reviews for even budget stuff so I was able to get great sounding earphone recommendations for almost any price range.
It took a while but I’ve settled for Etymotic research in the long run. They fit what I like and they are decently affordable. Also I’ve had a pair for 5 years now and they still work which cannot be said for the majority of earphones I own.
See if you can find used audio equipment.
About 10 years ago, I was looking for a decent 2.1 system. I had a budget of about $1000usd. On a friend’s advice, I went to a used audio shop.
I was able to get an older NAD receiver and nice Boston Acustics speakers for about $750. I found a new Polk sub for $250.
I’ve been using my system almost daily for 10 years now. It’s fantastic and I feel no need to upgrade.
See if you can find a store that sells used audio equipment near you
KZ earphones are excellent, and I think they’re Chinese. I actually have mine hooked up to a bluetooth headphone amplifier that has an app ans and can do balance output to the KZ with an upgraded cable. All in I probably paid $100.
Yeah bro, i have these too, using then every day, they durable as fuck and sound way way better than even those thrice it’s price, also changing cables is a lifesaver, and their cables is durable as hell too, I’m using the same cable for 4 years already and it’s still good as new
