Summary
Key leaders of the “Abandon Harris” movement, which encouraged voters to oppose Kamala Harris due to U.S. support for Israel during the Gaza war, are now expressing unease about Trump’s incoming administration.
Many in the movement, including prominent Muslim leaders, voted for Trump hoping he would bring peace to the Middle East.
However, concerns are growing over his Cabinet picks, such as Mike Huckabee and Tulsi Gabbard, which some see as troubling for Muslim communities.
“Many in the movement, including prominent Muslim leaders, voted for Trump hoping he would bring peace to the Middle East”
How the FUCK would you hope for that? Have you been living under a rock and didn’t know who Trump actually is and what he does? The Muslim ban Trump? That Trump? Bringing peace to the Middle East? Seriously?
The American electorate is stunningly stupid and disconnected from reality. Look up some of the trending Google searches on election day, they’re stupider than you think
Devotion to religion is also a red flag for inability to think critically. Being conditioned not to think for yourself is a tenant of all religions. The more fundamental the less thought is happening. Trump and the republicans have realized this and used it to his advantage almost exclusively.
This is a bullshit excuse. The average America receives a very well rounded education. They choose not to use it.
Yes: the guy who banned Muslims from entering the US on his previous term will end the war and bring peace to the Middle East.
monkey’s paw curls
palestinians are thoroughly genocided and Gaza + West Bank + other lebensraum in the area have all structures reduced to grade #7 gravel
That is also technically peace, in that there is no more fighting. It’s just a really bad one.
Truly, the gullibility of some people simply beggars belief.
Wait wait, I remember a guy who was constantly arguing and berating everyone about how Biden was just the worst Satan reincarnation or some shit and how we all needed to band together against both him and Harris. Oooh @HomerianSymphony , you still around, bud?
We’d like an interview.
They were probably just astroturfing, and now that they’ve successfully completed their objective, they’ve got no reason to stick around.
I still see a handful of the useful idiots that were on here paroting those talking points, and I have to wonder if they’ve been able to accept that they were sold a bill of goods.
I have to wonder if they’ve been able to accept that they were sold a bill of goods.
They were the bill of goods. They were a line item on the Trump campaign budget. Their temp job is over so they’re not posting.
What did sticking with genocide Joe and Kamala get you? They knew they were gonna lose and didn’t change course 1 bit
You sure aren’t living up to that name with comments like that.
Look, it wasn’t about Biden or Harris or Obama or whomever else you want to project your shitty little excuses on. This cycle was about stopping a then would-be dictator. We were trying to do right by the world. Not by you. Not by the MAGA cultists. Not by Gaza or Ukraine alone. For everyone through stopping someone who had made it clear he, and through the agreement and support of the GOP, would do worse.
Then you single issue idiotic disappointments wouldn’t wake the fuck up. Yes, the Dems fucked up. Harris started strong and some snob Left probably ancient “strategist” convinced her to shift gears and she toned it down, along with other bad choices. It was shit. You know what I can die knowing I did?
Not voting someone who might actually be fucking evil BACK into the Office of the Biggest God Damn Chair we have. So kiss my ass, Schwdinehund, at least we tried to stop what’s coming.
I voted for Harris. I voted for Biden. I voted for Clinton.
I still wouldn’t warn a single one of them if they were about to get hit by a bus.
Its harm reduction. They don’t solve anything. They just keep us treading water sinking slowly whereas Republicans start taking a hammer to the hull to open up new holes.
I voted for Harris. I voted for Biden. I voted for Clinton.
I still wouldn’t warn a single one of them if they were about to get hit by a bus.
American Democracy in a nutshell. You get two choices, they’re both awful for different reasons. One of them wants to see you executed for your religious beliefs/sexual preferences/nation of origin. The other is continent to sell bunker buster bombs to some raving psychotic mass murderers overseas. Nobody is going to do shit about climate change, though, so we’re all on the clock in the long run.
Its harm reduction.
It increasingly feels like the closest thing to harm reduction the US achieved was the time Trump fucked up his COVID response and a bunch of his senior leadership choked to death on their own lung fluid.
There was roughly 20 different elected positions on my ballot.
The real problem with American politics is everyone is so focused on the POTUS that they ignore the politicians who have an actual measurable effect on their quality of life.
I challenge anyone to look up your local town hall and see when the next city council meeting is. Go to it and see what they talk about and vote on. Notice the other people who go.
Many cities have public meetings for police oversite too. They’re even less attended than city council meetings
I challenge anyone to look up your local town hall and see when the next city council meeting is. Go to it and see what they talk about and vote on. Notice the other people who go.
I’ve been to a few city council meetings. When you’re there as part of an organization lobbying for a particular policy, you can at least see the terms of the debate and understand who to lobby, what the blockades are, and why a seemingly good-idea isn’t getting through. But if you’re just sitting in on meetings, its like tuning into CSPAN at a random point in the day. You’ve got no historical context. You don’t know who you’re listening to or why they’re talking. And there’s a ton of maneuvering going on behind the scenes that you can’t glimpse because you’re not really a part of it.
Add to the problem, a lot of people aren’t really wedded to their communities. I live in a neighborhood in which people move in and out every five years or so, chasing a better job or looking for better schools or trying to find more garage space for their giant cars or cashing out on a sudden jump in their home price. Trying to get them engaged in a fight over the ten-year-plan for mass transit is basically impossible because most of them won’t be here in ten years.
I don’t say this to discourage anyone from going. But this isn’t something you can just bootstrap your way into. You really need a community of more knowledgeable and engaged people to introduce you to what is going on and why. Otherwise, you’re just listening to a couple of people argue over the preferred way to renovate municipal drainage on the opposite side of town for an hour.
American Democracy in a nutshell. You get two choices, they’re both awful…
The democratic process doesn’t start on election day.
Yeah, it starts when someone has a billion dollars and wants to influence government.
It started well into the election cycle after Biden refused to honor his one term pledge.
No time for a primary now! Oops didn’t mean to! /$
First Past The Post voting has got to go, or else the USA is toast. A shame the democratic party believes themselves to be more important then the country itself.
Harm reduction is bad?
Obviously, it’s not ideal, but one has to act according to the real life conditions… And in 2024, our only two options were “harm reduction,” and literal fascism with literal concentration camps.
Fuck you if you didn’t choose harm reduction.
To be fair to them, we’re just delaying collapse. It is a choice.
I agree with them that there’s no saving this constitutional structure. In one sense it’s cowardly, because there’s no escape from this capitalist slaughterhouse hellscape without collapse. Collapse is necessary. Trump will certainly usher that in faster.
But Im too much of a softy to let the blood that always has to spill be on my hands.
This country was irreparable since Reagan, a zombie nation oligarch piggie bank. My vote was a cowardly one for a few more years of quiet orderly slaughter, NOT peace.
But we lost, so the slaughter will be loud and bigger than it’s ever been, so maybe it’s time for revolution if we want our kids to have anything left.
Because in 4 years the DNC WILL anoint someone to meet Trump’s economy in the middle, and even I may not be able to stomach voting for that.
Kamala was in a weird place as well.
Normally it’s easy for people to hold their noses for an incumbent. But if Kamala won. Shed run again in 2028.
Which would mean from 2012 to 2032, there wouldn’t have been a fair Dem primary.
20 fucking years…
Party leaders don’t understand that when you take primaries away, it hurts general turnout. Because regardless of who wins, the primary is the time for the eventual candidate to get their finger on the pulse and see what voters want.
Which is reliably that the Dem candidate moves left.
Without a primary they move right and turnout goes down.
We have literally decades of data that shows this, but it’s not what the donors want and the present DNC wants donations more than votes.
Hopefully Winkler gets chair in a few months and that changes.
I think there’s some truth in thinking that continuing to elect milquetoast corporatist neoliberal candidates just builds up more extremism and discontent as people continue to suffer under option A of 2 - so when eventually a neocon breaks through they tend to be bonkers. It’s why I’m so fucking disappointed in Starmier as he’s clearly going to do fuck all and likely hand the next election to the torries.
That said, that’s a pretty fucking abstract view and there’s always a chance we get lucky. I voted for Harris but I was really hoping we’d get Senator Harris who actually gave a shit and, even if I knew for certain she’d be underwhelming I’d still fucking vote for her because Trump was worse on every issue and would directly cause a lot of additional human suffering. Women would be forced into unwanted pregnancies, trans people would be suppressed or worse - deaths would come from increased incidents of suicide and self-medication, and, lastly, (and I know a fuck ton of pushback on this point here) more Palestinians would die as Trump accelerated genocide.
So yea, I really regret that we are constantly dealt such bad hands but harm reduction is always a good thing to pursue in the absence of better actions.
Seriously though, when Biden dropped out fuck absolutely everyone who defended the DNC anointing Harris instead of running a snap primary.
Democrats going the full Florida route and just nominating Mitt Romney for President in 2028.
If you’re only voting for harm reduction year after year and doing nothing to try and organize grassroots opposition to the lesser evil, yes constantly voting harm reduction is bad. It’s how you allow lesser evils to grow into the larger evils of the current DNC, who care more about fundraising than winning.
If you’re only voting for harm reduction year after year and doing nothing to try and organize grassroots opposition to the lesser evil, yes constantly voting harm reduction is bad.
The thing is that this is everyone in America. The left has practically no grassroots organization and expects online complaints about the DNC to magically accomplish something, and the right has astroturfed horse shit that that is on board with whatever the corporatist GOP wants to do.
That been my realization. I voted for harm reduction for what 12 year now like a lot of us and have little to show for it if not less. Yes the other side is a factor but they also seem more successful in their braindead idiot agenda too.
Fuck you if you didn’t choose harm reduction.
…thirty years of choosing harm reduction brought us to this point…
…i held my nose and voted against fascism, but if you want to blame someone, blame the f*cking fascists and blame the thirty years of harm reduction which enabled them: pluralities win, that’s how american democracy works…
This is such a dumb take. You can’t say “thirty years of harm reduction brought us here” with the implication that if Republicans won every election in the time frame things would somehow be better, unless you’re actually just a right wing voter.
I’ll say it for the thousandth time: voting in national elections in no way affects your ability to do other activism. If your argument is along the lines of “voting for the worst option will unite the resistance and we’ll make real change”, well, I hope you realize that that “real change” is bloody revolution with an uncertain result.
Clinton Clinton Bush 2 Bush 2 Obama Obama Fuckface Biden Fuckface
Its as even as you can get over 9 terms (4:5)
Let’s not forget how much absolute harm Bush and Fuckface caused, and I’m not even counting Fuckface’s homicidal COVID response.
The US would have universal healthcare and a sane supreme Court if it wasn’t for Republicans.
Fuck you if you didn’t choose harm reduction.
With caveats.
A lot of people who chose to just not vote were given a choice between two people who want to genocide their family… Harm reduction wasn’t offered to them.
two people who want to genocide their family
Want vs will. There’s a small difference in that binary choice that you don’t need to both-sides it.
If your friend is an alcoholic getting wasted on a bottle of vodka every night, switching them to beer because it has less alcohol is not harm reduction. Rescuing a young woman from Jack The Ripper and giving her to Jeffrey Epstein “for her safety” is not harm reduction. A professional fighter concerned about CTE switching to football is not harm reduction. The lesser of two evils is very much still evil.
Those are all literally harm reduction buddy. If those are the only options available you’d take them because they all mean a better chance of better results in the future. Of course, in these situations you would definitely have better options, but you’re deliberately framing it like there are no others. So are you comfortable saying you’d leave your friend alone with the bottle of vodka, let the woman get disemboweled, and not recommend the sport with helmets?
It is when both parties get the same orders from the same bribers on economic policy and merely war on how to or if to address some of the social issue symptoms, the ones that don’t effect their briber’s quarterly results.
Example: they war over forced births, but abortion is often an ECONOMIC decision, and the markets have demanded 2 breadwinners the last few decades to make moar from themselves, which is antisocial and antifuture. You won’t hear either party calling for a single income for most to all being able to support a family. That’s a matter of economic policy. That’s a choice. There would objectively, naturally be fewer abortions without coersion if economic desperation wasn’t defended here by both parties, no threat of state violence required.
No, our choice is on the social issue of forced births? No forced births? Your choice lol… Then get back to work, battery.
Same.
But there’s not enough willing to hold their noses for us to reliably win elections.
So it doesn’t make sense to blame anyone besides the people at the DNC actively stopping the type of candidates those people would love to vote for and instead cramming someone the majority of the party dislikes down our throats and hoping enough hold their noses.
Like, not even from a perspective of which policy is better, just on the basis of what wins elections…
Why isn’t the DNC backing the candidates who are most popular with Dem voters?
Why do they keep picking the ones that will get the most donations, then trying to use that money to build up to less than the support the popular candidate already had?
And why the fuck is anyone blaming anyone besides them?
It quite literally is a reduction of harm. If two options are presented one is extremely harmful and one is slightly harmful, then voting for the slightly harmful one is a reduction of harm. Harm. reduction.
I don’t know what you are talking about with “harm reduction has a specific meaning…voting is not harm reduction.” because the words literally mean a reduction in the amount of harm, whether active or potential.
Even if you can provide an alternate definition, that is more of an example of the versatility of the language allowing multiple definitions, than any commentary on the current subject.
Some people literally think the term only belongs at the methadone clinic.
No no no,they saved Palestine, remember?
Now that the Dems aren’t in control all those Palestinians are perfectly safe.
Right, tankies? That’s all you were screeching about back in November. Now it’s cricket chirps, like Palestine even mattered to you lot. Disgusting.
I love how you are being downvoted without anyone actually providing a counter point. Because you are absolutely right.
Leading up to the election lemmy was flooded with Palestine bullshit and Genocide Joe, and people that suggested it’s a war started by fucking Israel and you should be boycotting them were downvoted.
A lot of people here got swept up in the propaganda, and it was painful to see how dumb my side can be, but here we are.
Orange man is coming and suddenly no-one is posting about Palestine and every thread I’m in doesn’t have people screeching genocide Joe.
I’m fully convinced lemmy was flooded with foreign assets spreading bullshit and hurting democratic turnout.
It’s painful to see how effective it was, an an issue so ridiculous I couldn’t have believed it if it was in a book. Country X, with president Y attacks Z, and idiots here are screaming at county U with president J…
It wasn’t just Lemmy, I know otherwise reasonably intelligent people who became literally brainwashed from TikTok. We’re talking far left, never Trumper’s, knew he was an existential threat, but couldn’t have their moral superiority tarnished and HAD to vote 3rd party. They bought into that propaganda hook, line and sinker.
There has been a recurring argument (not mine, heaven forbid) both prior to and in the aftermath of the election that not voting for the dems would show them that they can’t keep running away to the right and still expect to win. It would teach them a lesson.
It baffles me that they think a) the Dems would actually learn the lesson, b) the alternative wouldn’t be that much worse and c) the alternative that quite explicitly aimed to abolish democracy entirely would willingly afford the dems a chance to learn that lesson. If they can’t eliminate democracy itself, they’ll try to neuter and bias it as heavily as possible until they’ve got the same kind of pseudo-democratic one-party fuckery that you see in other countries like… China, North Korea, Russia, Belarus…
Huh, that’s funny, seems like all the countries whose boots they’re so eager to lick. I’m sure that’s coincidence, right?
Actually, that’s a lie. I don’t believe it’s coincidence at all. I think it’s part of a deceitful strategy to undermine democracy through spreading willful ignorance and channeling voter frustration and disillusionment into frustration with democracy itself. Hell, there are even people claiming that a dictatorship is a necessity of revolution, that you can’t build a new and better system without placing someone in charge of building it - because that worked out so fucking well with the other communist revolutions, right?
Every single fucker who gargles dictator cock under the guise of “communism” and “leftism” is an authoritarian, a traitor against the people they feign class solidarity with. You don’t save democracy by not participating. You don’t hold politicians accountable by supporting their opponents.
And that’s being charitable and assuming they’re just misguided, not intentionally malicious foreign actors.
I’m not from the US but I know that I would really struggle morally to cast a vote for either party.
Yes, voting for Trump because of Palestine is stupid, but I can easily see how voting for the party that keeps sending money and weapons, and supporting them in the UN, while pretending to ask them to “be more careful about killing civilians”, would not be very desirable either.
The US electoral system is absolute dogshit, but in my opinion the Dems lost this election all by themselves.
Edit: are the downvotes because you disagree, or because you’re upset that I’m right?
Unfortunately it boiled down to selecting the lesser of the two evils and the Abandon Harris clowns chose the neo-Nazi MAGAts which will send, for free, a nice assortment of 155 mm artillery shells to Israel… From my point of view, zero sympathy for your FAFO.
I’ll never understand how people could vote for Trump over Harris on the Israel thing.
Trump was crystal clear he would give Israel whatever they needed to get it done and quick. Democrats rolled over for Israel but at least made it known they weren’t happy about it. Which is most certainly not enough but still.
I just hope the Democratic party takes the hint that their extremely middle-of-the-road approach to these and many other serious problems is killing them during elections. They should stop trying to please everyone (and especially the far-right) and commit to an actual opposing viewpoint.
No Trump lied he would bring peace. Harris said she would give Israel everything it needs. You are switching the sides around.
Yep. They’re getting exactly what they voted for, whether they like it or not. They might not have liked Harris’ limp wristed attempts at encouraging moderation and restraint, but Trump’s plan was to “Finish the problem” and will not just enable, but actively encourage genocide.
I have zero sympathy for those who only regret their vote for Trump now that his policies - which were always obvious - come back to haunt them personally.
Trump’s word and actions rarely line up, he isn’t right in the head enough to know what he’s doing, but if he thinks it helps Trump he will.
And yet he spent a whole lot of effort blocking totally not Muslims from immigrating. Why would you not take him seriously when he said Israel should finish the job?
