“never plug extension cords into extension cords” is probably the most common piece of electrical related advice I’ve ever heard. But if you have, say, 2 x 2m long extension cords, and you plug one into the other, why is that considered a lot more unsafe than just using a single 4 or 5 meter cord?
Does it just boil down to that extra connection creating another opportunity for the prongs to slip out and cause a spark or short circuit? Or is there something else happening there?
For that matter - why aren’t super long extension cords (50 or more meters) considered unsafe? Does that also just come down to a matter of only having 2 connections versus 4 or more on a daisy chained cord?
Followup stupid question: is whatever causes piggybacked extension cords to be considered unsafe actually that dangerous, or is it the sort of thing that gets parroted around and misconstrued/blown out of proportion? On a scale from “smoking 20 packs of cigarettes a day” to “stubbing your toe on a really heavy piece of furniture”, how dangerous would you subjectively rate daisy chaining extension cords, assuming it was only 1 hop (2 extension cords, no more), and was kept under 5 or 10 metres?
I’m sure there’s probably somebody bashing their head against a wall at these questions, but I’m not trying to be ignorant, I’m just curious. Thank you for tolerating my stupid questions
It increases the risk of electrical overload and overheating as it adds more resistance to the circuit.
Thanks for the response! Would you mind going a bit more in depth about that please? I could understand increasing the risk of overload if you were to daisychain power boards, as they add more power points to the circuit than it was designed for. But extension cords (at least in my experience) only have 2 ends - one with a single plug receptacle, and the other that plugs into a power point
Is it the actual connection between the two that adds more resistance to it? If it were the wiring, then wouldn’t that also pose a problem for longer extension cords?
In either case, what sort of resistance add are we talking about (feel free to pick random lengths of examples make it easier to explain)?
The longer the cable, the thicker (heavier gauge) it needs to be to carry the same current without burning up. One extension cord is rated to carry the current it alone is able to carry. Put two of those in series, and both of them together are able to carry less current than either one by itself. This is how fires start.
This is incorrect. I need to increase gauge for voltage drop. Overloading the cable via length can only happen if I have a motor or other magnetic load at the end. A motor will try to draw it’s designed wattage regardless of voltage. A wire of a given ampacity will handle that many amps regardless of the length of the conductor. The relationship is power = voltage x current and voltage = current x resistance for single phase. The fire concern on extension cords tied together indoors is you have 100% strung that shit through a doorway or window, which is a code violation. You are going to pinch it and burn your shit down. all outdoor plugs are gfci these days and on site i can have 4 or 5 extension cords tied together. i only get 109 volts at the end but a heater is a resistive load. Doesnt matter for that application.
I wonder what kind of safety margin is calculated into these…
Admittedly I’ve seen some wildly different shielding or thickness in my time
I don’t think what they said is actually a problem, it’s just a back-justification for the original trope. Daisy chaining them and strictly sticking to only the few appliances that would fit in one extension strip is fine. But that’s complicated to explain, it’s better to just tell people not to do it rather than expect them to understand what’s going on
A couple things that can happen…
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plugging in too many appliances over several daisy chained power strips trips the circuit breaker because too much current is being drawn
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if the country you live in has lax electrical safety standards then, yes, perhaps you can overload the daisy chain without tripping the main circuit which would lead to overheating
When the breaker trips then the fundamental issue is unlikely to be present. But to be able to push enough current to cause it to break the connection needs to have a sufficiently low resistance. If that gets too high it will never break, even if you short the cables. And that will result in a fire, because the protection does not work anymore. That is the dangerous part.
Isn’t the added cable resistance small enough to not cause issues so soon? In case you just chain a few ( < 10 ) together.
The longer the distance, the larger the diameter of the wire you need, due to resistance/heat.
Typically, extension cords are going to be manufactured with the thinnest wire they can get away with based on the safety requirements, in order to save on materials cost.
So plugging 2 short cords together might cover the same distance as 1 longer cord, but the longer cord will use thicker wire to maintain the proper margin of safety.
Said another way: Each cable is given the minimum copper and shielding that cable needs for the length it is made.
As soon as you plug two together, you’re operating at greater resistance than either one was made for, and relying on the margin of error.
I’ve run a full DJ setup with speakers, a mixer, soundboard, laptop, etc. off a single line of 6-8 daisy-chained extension cords more times than I can count.
…uh…how have I never learned of this.
DJ’s really will find any excuse to tell you they’re a DJ
Edit: you wrote and deleted a super unhappy message so just wanted to say sorry, I was just being goofy not trying to rag on you
But unless coiled up on the ground the longer cable also has more area to dissipate heat, so the longer cable doesn’t change anything here. The heat output will be consistent for any section of the cable no matter how much more cable there is on easier side of it.
The only think that the different resistance would affect is the voltage drop to the end device. But voltage drop varies wildly so you are unlikely to have a meaningful difference caused by a few extension cords (unless maybe you are already a bad case like an apartment building to start).
The longer wire (being also thicker) has less resistance and is therefore wasting less power as heat, that’s where the Voltage drop is going.
Sure, most of the time it’s fine if you know what you’re doing, but that’s why it’s general wisdom and not a hard rule, like “don’t put metal in the microwave”, it’s said to protect those that have no idea what they’re doing/why the saying exists
Resistance of a cable is (resistivity x Length)/(πr^2) so the residence increases with length, which is why longer extension cords are designed thicker to reduce resistance. Power grids are voltage stabilized so the voltage drop will be negligible but it will take more power to get down the daisy chain, producing more heat.
Distance by itself would be no different than a single cord of the same length.
However, connection points are areas of localized resistance where connectors meet. This can introduce dangerous areas.
That said, those aren’t really the problem here:
The practical, human, problem here is important. Connectors come loose, which makes them dangerous. The majority of this thread is treating this question like a paper test problem, when in reality there are other factors that outweigh the “under ideal circumstances” problem.
The longer the wire, the more heat it can dissipate, so no, you don’t need wire to be thicker.
Not sure if you’ve ever used fuse wire before. It’s what was used before capsule fuses and breakers. Essentially, if too much current goes through it, it will melt, breaking the circuit as protection. The thicker the fuse wire, the more current it can pass through without melting. The length of the wire doesn’t come into it. 1cm of 10 amp fuse wire will melt at the same current as 1 meter of 10 amp fuse wire.
Yes, maximum carried current is indeed invariant of length. I explained math behind it in https://lemm.ee/comment/17115060
Meanwhile landlords: "one 50 year old outlet should be enough for two bedrooms right?*
This, along with hotels that hide their only power point behind the bed but have 50 bloody phone jacks, are my pet peeves. But it kinda makes sense when you consider they were mostly built before the days of having a ton of devices in the bedroom. A lamp and alarm clock, maybe a TV if you’re well off, would’ve been perfectly fine for a lot of people
The absolute worst is when the Word Documents are stashed away in some random drawer. Or when you find an Excel spreadsheet under the mattress!
I really wish my autocorrect would stop doing that. I can count on one hand the amount of times I’ve actually wanted to write “PowerPoint”. I couldn’t even count on 10 hands the amount of times it’s assumed I’m some kind of idiot that doesn’t know “PowerPoint” is a single word when I type “power point”
I once read a theory on an electricians forum about how the USA electrical code’s mandated maximum distance between adjacent outlets on a wall, coupled with the typical bedroom layout, as well as home builders trying to be as cheap as possible, led to only a single outlet being placed directly in the middle of the longest wall. This is also the most logical position for a bed, so the theory is that the bed pressing against the outlet over time was a contributing factor to electrical-related house fires.
I cannot find where I read that originally, and certainly the granularity of nationally-reported fire data is not sufficient to prove that theory. And while the electrical code’s distance requirements haven’t changed, more homes will now put enough outlets so the only one isn’t behind the bed.
Years ago, I used to play live music. We played in a lot of shitty dive bars. Thinking back on all the ancient decrepit plugs we used to power our instruments, amplifiers, and stage lights with…it’s a miracle we never started a fire. Nightmare fuel now that I’m older and a little bit wiser.
Others have pretty much mentioned it. Too thin of conductors for the total length required which can overload the cable and heat it up. If you’re just charging your phone it’s unlikely to cause a problem but the more amps you pull the riskier it gets.
Here’s a helpful chart…
Edit: Even at harbor freight (cheap hardware store) a 50ft 12 gauge extension cord is about $40 and weighs 7 pounds.
16 AWG – 1.3 mm^2
14 AWG – 2 mm^2
12 AWG – 3.3 mm^2
10 AWG – 5.2 mm^2
For us from the civilised part of the world ;-)
However, as in Europe we have 230 V system, approximately half the cross section, as stated in the table above, is sufficient.
Edit: This is how the above text should be displayed:
Both are measurements of cross-sectional AREA and are defined in terms of square millimeters (mm^2), not mm.
I’ve always found gauge to be especially odd, because the number gets smaller as you go bigger, so at one point you can’t go any further even though you can go fatter.
Is it just me or is anyone else perturbed that the cable sizes in this infographic are all the same gauge?
It doesn’t make sense. Temperature difference does not depends on length.
Adding length creates more resistance which creates more heat. Thinner conductors can’t handle it as well.
And more surface area for heat dissipation. https://lemm.ee/comment/17115060
They cancel out.
There are two things going on here.
The first is that yes, more connections causes more opportunities for the plugs to slip. So you can get short circuits or even arcing that can start a fire.
The second is that the wire in the cord has a certain rating on it. Many of those cords do not use 12 (20 amp) or 14 (15 amp) gauge wire; so, they’re not rated for the full capacity of the wire in the wall. The breakers are sized to protect the wires in the wall, they don’t know anything about the things plugged into them. So what can happen is you plug too much into the extension cord (particularly if it’s a power strip) and the load on the extension cord is not enough to trip the breaker (because the walls are fine) but it’s enough to overload the extension cord wire. In other words, the extension cord can start getting so hot it melts and possibly arcs up as the insulation fails.
You can have a fire from overloading a single power strip in just the same way. However, the more you chain together, the more likely you are to overload the power strip.
Ideally, you just think about what you’re doing… But historically the easy answer is just to tell people not to chain things.
In short it’s not about the distance, it’s about the insulation and quality of the wire itself along with the number of connections.
Awesome answer - thank you!!
Although I guess a more general question - why aren’t all power boards and extension cords mandatorily fitted with their own circuit breakers/overload protection circuits? I guess it’s cheaper to just tell people never to daisy chain, but at the same time, when you factor in overall costs incurred by anybody (or insurance companies, etc) from people unintentionally overloading them and causing them to melt and burn down houses, wouldn’t it be in everybody’s best interests to raise the price a few dollars and include a resettable overload protection system?
Some power systems do actually put a fuse in the extension cord… I think it’s the UK that does this. Basically every power system other than the US uses different (safer) plug designs that solve the arcing problem.
In practice daisy chaining rarely causes a serious problem and it makes things more expensive so it never really became a thing that was legislated or common within the US. Similar to how the plug designs themselves rarely cause a problem so it hasn’t made sense to actually change them.
