We have to face that loads of high ranking “moderate” Dems would prefer a Republican to a progressive.
If a Republican gets in office, it makes it easier to get people vote lesser of two evils.
If a progressive gets in office, it’s really hard to unseat them. They can barely manage to get House Reps out for moderates even with AIPAC money.
If Bernie had won 2016, he’d have gotten to name the DNC chair, he could of solidly ended in the failed neo liberal experiment.
We were really fucking close to fixing things, but after NH got their delegates stolen, I don’t think itll happen.
I honestly think if a real progressive wins a presidential party primary, the standing party might disregard it.
I largely agree with you. Could you elaborate on your last sentence though?
presidential
partyprimary
There was an autocorrect there, but if that doesn’t clear it up:
A primary isn’t binding.
That was the DNCs legal argument for why if they rigged it, that would be legal.
The entire primary process is merely a survey.
This is really a good argument for nonpartisan blanket primaries, which in other countries would be known as the first round of a two-round system. And it really should be advertised that way so people don’t just write it off as “just a primary”.
California adopts this system. You vote for one candidate in the primary. The top two candidates appear on the second round ballot. Most votes in the second round wins.
However, the fact that parties choose the candidates is really not unusual at all. In fact, the US is pretty unique in terms of how much influence voters have over the process. In most countries, interested candidates apply for the party’s nomination, and then the party’s central leadership or local party committee vets the applications and nominates their favourite candidate. Only the chosen candidate gets to stand with the party’s rosette.
Let’s run through the recent story so people have it:
(First on FDR, that was before 45 years of anti-communist rhetoric, which frankly turned into anti-government-policy rhetoric.)
Jimmy Carter: Told people to conserve and got voted the fuck out.
Bill Clinton: After successive losses Bill figured out “it’s the economy stupid”. And when you run against an incumbent (Bush senior) you have to run from the center. So that’s what he did. And he won.
Gore: After the population hopefully warmed up with Bill Clinton, he stuck his head out left with climate change. And bam he lost the election. Thanks 3rd party protest voters!
Obama: So guess what Obama learned? Don’t stick your head out. He ran on broad “hope”, hoping the ambiguity would be enough considering Bush’s disastrous wars. And he won.
Hillary Clinton: After the population hopefully warmed up with Obama, she stuck her head out just a tiny itty little bit left with the Map Room to fight climate change. And guess what happened? Bam she lost. Thanks protest non-voters!
Biden: Just like Obama learned from Gore, Biden learned from Hillary that you don’t stick your head out left. And he was running against an incumbent, so once again when you do that you run center. He’s actually been governing more from the left, but he ran center.
And people are amazed that they don’t run an extreme left platform? Every time they stick their head out a little itsy bitsy tiny bit left they lose. And the next guy learns to go to the center to win.
So how do you get them to move left? By giving them victories. Consistent and overwhelming victories. Because when they lose, like they’ve lost 20 years out of the last 24 years, they will go to the centre to find votes. You don’t get big steps without the small steps.
And you end up with the stupid idealist 3rd party voters that think “we’ll send a message with how we vote!” (Or don’t vote) not realizing the true impact they’re causing and the message it sends by having to go back to the center (which inches right more and more each time).
3rd party does have a place, but not right now with how screwed up things are.
Its forever going to be “not right now” for you, so we’re not waiting anymore, its only going to happen if we make it right now.
No, no it’s not. And if Trump is elected again, it’s on anyone who things as much.
And by “make it happen” you mean help get Trump elected and usher in a fascist dictatorship.
Revisionist history. To pretend like Hillary went slightly left and Gore didn’t have the election stolen from him is disingenuous at best.
I said Hilary went an itsy bitsy teeny weeny bit left with the map room to fight climate change. That’s what she did. And she lost. Thanks protest non voters!
Did we have President Gore? No we did not. We can talk all day about this or that, but we did not have President Gore. Thanks 3rd party protest voters!
Hillary lost because she was a corrupt, out of touch (Pokemon go to the polls), unlikable piece of shit who stole the primary from Bernie (as shown by the John Podesta email leaks). She also used the “pied piper” strategy to help Trump win the RNC primary because she thought he was the most beatable candidate. Voters didn’t even know she wanted to fight climate change because she never talked about it. She also participated hardcore in voter shaming (which is also what you’re doing) and ran a pro-corporate, right wing campaign against Trump in the general. No shit, she lost, especially in the Rust Belt, which Bernie was doing well in according to polls.
Al Gore lost because the Republican party refused to count several votes in Florida, claiming that hanging and dented chads were not valid. It was later found with a recount that Gore won that election.
When leftist voters have to choose between corporate right and corporate right, they will sit out, protest vote, or begrudgingly vote for the Democrat due to a lack of a better option. Voter shaming is extremely toxic and will actively repel leftist voters.
Voters need something to vote for, not against.
i see how it fits your theory but her leftness wasnt why people didn’t vote for her. she didnt bother campaigning in the states that mattered and she acted entitled, and Bernie Sanders stole hearts while she stole DNC. etc etc.
They claim Hillary lost because she went a little left and it is the fault of… left wing voters? Hmm.
left wing voters? Hmm.
No, the left wing non-voters, that didn’t vote in protest.
We’re seeing it now with leftists who refuse to vote for Biden. Thankfully Lemmy isn’t really representative of the population. But they do exist.
I’m of the opinion that Hillary lost because of the blatant super delegate shenanigans within the DNC. I know I was LIVID. However, I wasn’t one of the folks who were so livid that they protest voted third party. I held my nose, suppressed my gag reflex, and voted for Hillary, though I really didn’t want to.
Hillary lost because she coasted through the end of her run. Everybody thought Trump wouldn’t stand a chance. We had more faith in people.
That and conservative psyops getting Bernie Bros to abstain from holding their nose and voting Hillary because they felt like they were being wronged.
Hey wait a sec that last part is happening again today…
Holy shit trying to blame hillarys loss on being too progressive. Somehow more progressive than Obama.
I said itsy tiny little bit left with the map room. How many adjectives do you need? No one is saying she was far left, again see adjectives. That’s what she ran on and bam she lost the election. Thanks protest no voters!
Have you considered why you have to use so many adjectives? Because she didnt at all run on a progressive platform. And you are claiming Obama won for not running on any progressiveness. He extensively ran on climate change and healthcare reform. Youve stretched your characterizations so far to try to fit your theory that you put Hillary to the left of Obama. Maybe its your theory that needs changing instead.
But you did say she moved “too far” left - if it was her itsy bitsy move left that caused non-voter protests, that is literally by definition “too far.”
But you’re misidentifying the cause here, while somehow still ending up at the right conclusion.
She very well may have lost because of non-voter protestors, but it was because she wasn’t far enough left. And if Hillary had actually moved further left to win those protestors’ votes, she would have lost the center vote. And Biden may very well lose for the same reason, so the lesson should be if you don’t want Trump to win, then don’t protest vote simply because Biden isn’t far enough left.
You really drank the Hillary/DNC kool aid if you’re still blaming protest voters in 2024.
And the double think in your post is glaring by the way. She went a tiny bit to the left and bam she loses the election because protest voters refused to vote for her? How does this even add up?
No she lost because she was an establishment candidate out of touch with the will of the people who ran on her privilege rather than her policies. So out of touch that she had to manipulate the primary to even get into the general. And so out of touch that rather than accepting the loss and taking responsibility for it, she shamed voters.
I appreciate much of your list and accept the danger of the third party vote.
And while that’s partly a result of right-wing and foreign operatives seeking to wedge-drive the Democratic coalition, it’s also a reflection of lack of voter enthusiasm and greater apathy.
Like it or not, for better or worse, elections in the US are popularity contests akin to shitty reality TV. It’s not about who is more qualified; it’s not about experience or education. As much as it should be, it IS NOT a job interview.
Whoever stands out, for better or worse, tends to win. Obama was different. He stood out; he won. JFK was different. He stood out; he won. Trump was different. He stood out; he won.
Hillary was boring. Uncharismatic. Anything but new. Carrying the baggage of decades of right-wing smere. Poll after poll of voter enthusiasm was in the gutter.
Voter enthusiasm for Biden was shit, too. But Biden stood out because he was at least different from Trump.
If Dems wanted to ensure victory they’d yank Biden and run someone fresh, young, charismatic, likable. Easy win. Why? Because they stand out, the right-wing taking-points and marching orders wouldn’t be prepared, and people would be excited for something different.
What I see a ton of on Lemmy is the supposed logical voter. Who’s waiting for the logical policy, and the logical platform, and the logical position. And they will logically wait for it, and until then they will logically not vote, in logical protest, to send a logical message. Because they are the be all of logic.
And what I’m saying is that if you want to be productive and effective in moving the window left, you accomplish that by electing Dems. Consistently and overwhelmingly. Because every time they lose they go to the center to find votes.
I agree. I also think it’s important to note that the nature of entropy dictates it’s far easier for Republicans to cripple the nation and set us back than to rebuild let alone add extensions. So for me a vote for Biden is above-all damage control.
Still I only wish we could curate better candidates because I think we can eat our cake and still have it. This appeal to the middle in terms of policy; this watering down our rhetoric tends to shoot ourselves in the foot in the long-run.
Changing the winning candidate at the eleventh hour for a nobody is definitely the worst thing Democrats could do.
Who would they even pick that the majority of Americans have heard of?
If the news dropped at the right time, it would be free publicity across social media and every corporate media outlet nonstop until election day. Not necessarily a nobody, but just someone less in the spotlight.
I’m pretty certain given my previous arguments that a young and semi-charismatic individual could sweep the election solely on age and freshness alone. And I’d say Kamala, but she’s uncharismatic and conservatives already have talking-points written up for her.
Considering the current polls, leaving Biden in is frankly just as if not more risky in my view. (disclaimer: I’m voting for Biden, of course).
Yep. America just isn’t that left in general. The right had the benefit of a cult of personality pushing fear to motivate voters. But being seen as left is still considered radical by a lot of Americans, unfortunately.
Edit: others below will continue fine reasons to shit on Hillary because Bernie just wasn’t popular enough.
Let’s try the more recent history again.
Obama ran on “hope” but, more importantly ,“change” and won in a landslide. Then he governed from the center as a status quo technocrat. He lost a Democratic super majority and almost the presidency to a slice of white bread.
Hillary Clinton was the most establishment centrist candidate the Democrats could have possibly run. Her campaign thought they could sweep the country by choosing a radical clown for the Republican opponent. They helped the Trump campaign get free media attention to win the primary, then they lost to the clown.
After 4 years of the clown, the country would have elected a ham sandwich. Even so, it was looking a bit close, so Biden did what most Democrats do in a close election and leaned left, almost sounding like Bernie lite at times. You can chart his popularity through his presidency and every uptick coincides with a move to the left, and every downtick with a move to the right.
Biden did what most Democrats do in a close election and leaned left
In a close election, and when running against an incumbent, Dems go to the center. Because that’s where the voters are.
You’re the first person I’ve ever heard say Biden leaned left.
I think you might just be a time traveler from the 90s. Everyone expected Biden to run further to the center but he did the opposite. Here is a partial list of his left leaning promises.
- Free community college
- Universal Pre-K
- Student debt forgiveness
- Double Pell Grants
- Expand Social Security
- Increase refugee admissions
- Expand path to citizenship
- Raise taxes on the wealthy
- Raise corporate tax rate
- Strengthen unions
- Bring back manufacturing
- Expand broadband access
- Voting rights for felons
- Eliminate mandatory minimums
- Eliminate cash bail
- End private detention centers
- Decriminalize Marijuana
- Lower cost of prescription drugs
- $15 federal minimum wage
- 12 weeks paid medical leave
- 7 days paid vacation
- Rejoin Paris Agreement
- Green energy assistance for disadvantaged communities
- Block new fracking
- Offer a public option
- Create public health jobs corps
- Restore engagement with Cuba
- Constitutional amendment to eliminate private funding of elections
- Reverse transgender military ban
The thing is, that the left-right spectrum isn’t the only axis that voters use to evaluate politicians anymore. A mich more important axis is now pro/anti establishment. Americans almost universally despise the DC establishment. Hillary represented that establishment, while Trump mocked it. Trump was a message in the form of a molotov cocktail.
He certainly paid lip service to the left.
Still waiting on any semblance of substantive policy regarding healthcare, student debt, income inequality, or labour rights.
Remember when the rail workers tried to strike and R̶e̶a̶g̶a̶n̶ Biden told them to get back to work?
Of course, this all pales in comparison to the giant genocide elephant in the room…
Bill Clinton didn’t run to the center, he ran to the right. Well past the center.
Take that one however far center or right you want to, the point is that’s what he had to do to find votes (after successive Dem losses).
So guess what Obama learned? Don’t stick your head out. He ran on broad “hope”, hoping the ambiguity would be enough considering Bush’s disastrous wars.
The “Hope” slogan was coined by Shepard Fairey on the poster of Obama he created and distributed independently of the Obama campaign, albeit with tacit approval. The campaign’s actual slogans were “Change you can believe in” and “Yes we can.”
The DNC pursued a policy of progressive policy to counter Bush.
Obama won and the party immediately began shifting right. Eight years of pulling away from progressive policy.
And then Trump won, at which point you saw a leftist presence being entertained again by his midterms.
So to answer your final question: The record shows victories appear to cause the Democratic Party to move right. Often argued as a result or consequence of any implemented leftist policy. Backlash, if you will, but still.
Obama won and the party immediately began shifting right. Eight years of pulling away from progressive policy.
Guess how many years Obama had a Dem House of Representatives and Dem Senate? 2 years. Not 8. Only 2. That’s when we got the ACA though.
Contrary to how many people talk the president is not a King. The president does not pass laws, Congress does. And Dems need control of all 3 (presidency, house of reps, and Senate) to pass much of anything. So when the lose control, like they lost control for 6 years of Obama’s presidency, they have to reach across the aisle. Do you remember what happened? The GOP shut down the government under Obama.
Obama had 1 victory and then 3 losses. 1 victory for 2 years and then 3 losses for 6 of his years.
You want them to not reach across the aisle? Then give Dems victories in all 3 of house of reps, Senate, and presidency.
(Btw guess how much the Dems have had all 3. They have had it for 4 years out of the last 24 years. That’s right. They basically never have it. Want to include Bill Clinton? Then it’s 6 years of the last 32 years. What to go back further? Then it’s 6 years of the last 44 years. Read that again: 6 years out of the last 44 fucking years. And if you want filibuster proof majority, them it’s 4 MONTHS of the last 44 years. Not 4 years, 4 MONTHS of the last 44 years. You need to readjust what you think are victories.)
I think you read way more into what I wrote. Obama won. Party moved right. Both statements of fact. The ‘backlash’ I mentioned.
But alright.
Progressivism has strong resistance, as demonstrated. It takes a leader like FDR to withstand that resistance and marshal their party towards a political goal. The president is the executive branch but they are also the effective leader of their party’s and their political goals.
Leaders who buckle under pressure or demand their followers or voters lead the way for them are incredibly weak. Lame ducks. A failure.
FDR was much closer to being a Social Democrat than a Democratic Socialist. They sound similar but are quite different. Hell I think Bernie is closer to a Social Democrat, too. He praises the Nordic model and they’re textbook social democracies.
I’ve always felt that’s just pragmatism from Bernie, and in truth he’s ideologically a democratic socialist. If it makes any difference this is coming from a democratic socialist who’s a member of a social Democrat party.
I’ve always felt that’s just pragmatism from Bernie,
If you read his book “It’s Okay to Be Angry About Capitalism” it becomes very very obvious that this is the case. From quoting very radical anti-capitalists to tongue and cheek (somewhat) insider jokes such as naming the chapter on his time in mayoral politics “Socialism in one City”, it shows he’s definitely way more ideologically aligned with socialism than people give him credit for.
As an European, I have never understood why so many American leftists don’t see that, even by simply listening to what he is saying or looking at what he is doing. I mean he literally has a picture of Eugene Debs on his desk and mentions how he is this political role model and hero any chance he gets, that alone should tell you where he stands on an ideological or philosophical level…
And of course, he has been involved in various socialist groups his whole life and literally still calls himself a democratic socialist. Why would he do that if it wasn’t true? To gain a political advantage, in America of all places, where calling yourself a socialist would have generally been political suicide?
And then are his policies, where many will focus on healthcare and say “he just wants healthcare” and ignore anything else. But of course, healthcare is a major issue because it makes the working class even more dependend on their employers because they lose tgeir healthcare if they get fired, so it makes sense for him to focus on tgat first. And of course, he also had other policy in his program, like transfering 20% of ownership over major corporations to their employees and having workers electing half of the board of directors.
You can call him a reformer, you can call his participation ineffective, but why deny his political believes?
Not to be agist, but bernie is rapidly approaching his UBD. Closest we have to him in a viable position is AOC
Hey, nothing wrong with being agist in this situation, let’s be honest. Nobody - not Biden, not Bernie, not Trump - will be as cognitively-sharp when they are 80 as they were when they were 50, 40, 30. We wouldn’t want an 80-year-old lifeguard or firefighter, right?
And until an 18-year-old can be president, we’re already agist in one direction.
That we think putting geriatrics in the White House to run one of the most stressful jobs that is on-call 24/7 is a good idea… I mean it’s absurd. Just look how much Obama aged in 8 years. Forget the fact that the general risk of all-cause mortality is far greater, that’s just another risk-factor for running the country.
So yeah unfortunately I agree… Bernie’s opportunity was missed. When AOC runs one day, I will campaign as hard as possible for her victory.
Socialists want the workers to own the means of production.
Capitalism/liberalism wants capitalists to own it (though the workers can be the capitalists in question). Social democracy is a form of liberalism that seeks to improve quality of life and economic outputs through the creation of a well regulated welfare state (typically).
Other than that, it depends. The two groups mostly agree that poor people shouldn’t starve, that living wages should be a thing, and democracy and human rights matter, and one of the best ways to accomplish this all is the empowerment of worker unions. Everything else gets complicated.
FDR was definitely not a democratic socialist. He also wasn’t what modern views would consider a social democrat, but if it wasn’t for America still being segregated he probably would have counted as one easily enough. For the time? Probably. Some Greek Social Democrats wanted to conquer Turkey and expel the Muslims…
He wasn’t even a social democrat. At the time, social democrats were democratic socialists, the shift away from reformist socialism happened around the 80s (some social democratic parties still hang onto reformist socialism, at least in theory).
He was a smart liberal who realized that in order to save capitalism from collapsing again, some regulations are necessary. In Europe, similar policy was often pushed by social democrats, which sometimes leads to confusion. But actual social democrats at the time went (or at least wanted to go) further, like nationalization and socialization of major industry, worker representation at companies, and increasing worker and union power in general.
Social democrats stated endgoal was a socialist society. FDR’s endgoal was to protect and maintain capitalism.
Edit: Also, Bernie is definitely a reformist socialist, I will never understand why people think otherwise. He literally mentions Eugen Debbs, one of the most influencial socialists in American history, as his role model and hero every chance he can… And he praises the nordic model because the nordic model was literally pushed by reformist democratic socialists… Here is Olaf Palme, one of the most important figures when it comes to the nordic model and prime minister of Sweden (until he was murdered), explaining why he is a democratic socialist:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=7i2Ws1X5DSA
Just imagine a conservative politican, calling themselves a fascist, keeping a picture of Mussolini on their desk, saying he is their political role model. Would you claim that he isn’t really a fascist? It’s not even as if Bernie Sanders was dog whistling, he couldn’t be any clearer about his believes… Yet somehow, so many American leftists seem to sonehow doubt his intentions? Why? Because he isn’t radical enough? Because he isn’t throwing molotov coctails at the police? What does he have to gain from falsely calling himself a socialist??
The man’s presidental campaign was giving 20% of major corporations to it’s employees and having about half of the board of directors be elected by workers, among other stuff…
if you don’t even want to acknowledge his values and his ideology simply because he is playing the politics game and is a reformist, send him to Europe, we would love a genuine leftist like him with so much charisma. I don’t think you appreciate him…
Imagine dedicating your life to fight for a better life, involve yourself in the civil rights movement, work in various socialist groups, calling yourself a socialist and calling for major industry to be socialised, being constantly attacked by right wingers for your socialist believes, etc, only for fellow leftists denying that you are a “real socialist”…
Thanks for write-ups, there are certainly some things I have to read up on
I appreciate the positive response, if my tone might have been a bit aggressive, that was not my intention. I understand why people were mislead about Bernie, there was a ton of media reports about how Bernie “isn’t a real socialist” and it’s not like Bernie is god or anything, there are obvious limits to his approach. It forces people to make compromises and water down their believes. But I do believe he is genuine, or at least the most genuine seeming politician I have seen.
Also, AOC seems to be very similar, although she doesn’t have the same knowhow yet about politics and mostly focuses on rethoric. But she is basically a leftist activist who, with a shit ton of luck, managed to get into politics.
I really appreciate this write up. As when I saw this post I started questioning my own understanding of FDR. Which aligns with yours. That his intention was to find a middle ground between the working class and the capitalists. Whereas Bernie is much more about reforming capitalism.
I appreciate the positive response, if my tone might have been a bit aggressive, that was not my intention. I understand why people were mislead about Bernie, there was a ton of media reports about how Bernie “isn’t a real socialist” and it’s not like Bernie is god or anything, there are obvious limits to his approach. It forces people to make compromises and water down their believes. But I do believe he is genuine, or at least the most genuine seeming politician I have seen.
Also, AOC seems to be very similar, although she doesn’t have the same knowhow yet about politics and mostly focuses on rethoric. But she is basically a leftist activist who, with a shit ton of luck, managed to get into politics.
- When people in the modern day call someone a social democrat, they generally refer to the modern definition. The modern social democrat aims to reform capitalism to be more fair, as opposed to democratic socialists, who want to achieve socialism.
- Social liberals like FDR are rather similar to modern social democrats. They have a different lineage, but in terms of policy the main distinguishing factor is a distaste for state-owned enterprises.
- While I do not discount the possibility that he is intentionally moderating the positions he espouses publicly, he does not want to do away with private ownership, which is the goal of socialism. That being said, he goes much further than most social democrats in how much he wants to nationalize, how much he wants to incentivize coops, and how he wants 20% of major companies to be owned by the employees.
He also put Japanese Americans into internment camps, his New Deal policy led to institutional racism (red lining), and he ordered the FBI & IRS to investigate someone further left than him because he was worried they posed a political threat.
(Source on that last one: https://www.history.com/topics/crime/huey-long )
His left wing credentials are a bit lacking.
You’re correct, but also missing the point. He implemented economic policies that were further left than any other US president.
Absolutely. I just don’t think we should use him as a symbol of social democracy, because we can do much better. We need better than FDR, not just for leftwing politics, but leftwing social issues.
What I like about this conversation is the parallels to today.
Edit: To be clear, I mean FDR did some bad things, just like Biden. But we still remember all the good that came from him, of which there was arguably more.
Fair points! But Bernie’s are not… (Unfortunately I think he’s legit too old now anyway, and I would bet he would agree.) Not saying I wouldn’t vote for him, but I think age alone would stop many. (insert Biden/Trump swipe here)
Yeah unironically Bernie is further left than FDR when you look at it holistically. FDR may have been further left economically (which he also had to be pushed on a bit), but Bernie is left all around.
I think at this point in his career, the Senate is probably best for him. We need powerful progressive senators to pass progressive legislation. The Inflation Reduction Act could only go as far as it did because of Bernie’s influence and cooperation with Biden.
Which is something important I want to highlight – Clinton scorned Bernie, while Biden welcomed him. Biden was friendly to him in the Senate, and that set them up for a successful cooperative future. Lemmy could learn a lot from that. We’re stronger when we ally together.
And annoyingly he is (along with the other Roosevelt) still among our best presidents in history. We really shoupd demand more from our representatives.
We get what we deserve unfortunately. If we had 100% turnout and more of us considered running for office ourselves, we would see huge improvements.
I’ve thought about doing local politics in retirement, and maybe see where it goes. I don’t think it’s my primary calling – but then again, perhaps that’s the exact issue I’m pointing out.
It would’ve been more accurate for me to say that it continued institutional racism, and denied black people from benefiting equally from the New Deal. It led to further economic disparities, and Democrats overall should’ve used the opportunity to chip away at institutional racism.
You’re right. Whenever somebody makes a post like op I can just smell the authoritarian bs leaking from hexbear and lemmygrad.
Nah this isn’t authoritarian or Tankie at all. It is a valid point that economically left-wing policy was very successful in the past (and it’s just a meme anyway, it’s tongue in cheek).
Now there’s a lot of discussion we can have about why left-wing economics aren’t as popular among Americans anymore – I don’t think FDR’s policies could win an election today necessarily. But I think they can in the future. Reagan made us a deeply conservative nation and we’re only just coming out of that now.
You’re right, we should abolish term limits to make a forever leader whose opposition gets disappeared, and we should start apprehending and sentencing to death any wealthy who disagree with that leader. Trump seems to claim he’s the opponent of corruption and big money, right? He can be our leftwing supreme leader. /sarcasm
There isn’t a single leader in history who would pass your smell test. The reality is every human is complex and no one is all good or all bad. Except Andrew Jackson. Fuck that guy
But really, take a look, for example, at Lyndon Johnson. He was a renowned racist who ushered through the Civil Rights Act among many other progressive policies. He also escalated the Vietnam War. Dude did a lot of great things and a lot of bad things, and there’s no single policy or act in his life that defines the entirety of his administration.
Oh I’m not denying that at all. I’m just saying that FDR is a flawed human and we shouldn’t lionize him as a symbol of social Democrats.
He is a symbol of social Democrats, though, but he’s also a realistic product of his time. I heard an interview with a historian awhile back I wish I could find again. They basically described how if you try to judge a historical figure through today’s moral lens, you’ll always be disappointed, because history is rife with racism, dehumanization, slavery, and genocide. The most ardent leftists will point to the handful of white people who were actively fighting racism in the 1930s and say “See? Roosevelt didn’t have to implement racist policies!!” But the reality is that the majority culture was racist. The concept of not being racist just didn’t exist to 95%+ of white people at the time. Abraham Lincoln didn’t believe in racial equality, but I don’t use that to discount his positive contributions
Actually just to wrench your caveat, Andrew Jackson was a major figure in the voting rights battle of the day, the right of non property owners to vote.
If it weren’t for the Jackson admin, we wouldn’t have the language we used to expand voting rights even further when those fights came to their crescendoes, and this country would still be entirely governed as a landowner oligarchy instead of just significantly like it is now.
That sounds sarcastic and cynical but there is a big difference.
I appreciate the info. You’re totally right, and this further proves my point. People deride “the founding fathers” for the racist, capitalist state they created, but the reality is that what they created was absolutely radical for their time. The idea that white people of common birth could have power was incredibly radical in the late 18th century.
Since the US was founded, it’s been a steady march to increase rights, first to white landowning men, then to poor white mean, then to white women, and then to black, brown, and indigenous people. Many will say “well we haven’t gone far enough,” and that’s true, but that doesn’t discount the progress that’s been made since we were literally beholden to the whims of a king
His left wing credentials are a bit lacking.
No one in the US political establishment has any “left wing credentials” or ever has. FDR (and every other so-called “social democrat” then and now) are merely advocating for measures to make the status quo more stable and resilient - not for dismantling it (which is what an actual leftist wants).
Making a small minority of people happier at the expense of everyone else is bad, actually!
FTFY - note I also removed your /s, as this is your actual belief.
That’s right. Filibuster proof control for 4 months of the last 24 years.
You can go even further, filibuster proof control for 4 months of the last 44 years.
They also refused to get rid of the filibuster. They could have done it any time after it became clear that filibustering everything was the new playbook, around about 2012. This has been a problem for over a decade now and Democrats pretend they can’t just change the rule.
They could have also reformed it to require physical presence and actually filibustering, instead of being possible via email from the tropics. Then again, with the average age and health of Congress, that would likely put a significant limit on its effectiveness as a tactic (I don’t believe for a second that McConnell has the physical endurance to actually filibuster even a single bill).
