This happened in Toronto on October 24th
I heard Teslas are supposed to have manual release latches inside.
In any case, doors should always be manual anyway. This isn’t the first time this happened and I’m surprised there isn’t a regulation for this yet.
If we investigated car accidents like we did plane accidents we’d probably have banned them by now.
Investigators arrive on scene. Immediately notice how the infrastructure was designed for gridlock rush hour where nothing is moving. Are appalled that the only safety training the motorists received was completed 20 years ago and never refreshed. Dismayed that these circumstances are permitted in densely populated areas.
They do have manual release latches, but if you have never used them they might be hard to find. Especially in the panic of a burning car.
Really vehicle electronic doors should operate the same way they (usually?) do in buildings - in case of power loss they default to unlatched.
Power loss isn’t necessarily a good choice even in a traditional ICE car with a battery, let alone one with a bigass EV battery.
Because it makes it super easy to break into a car (pop the hood and unplug two connectors) AND very likely will remain charged throughout much of the fire.
No. The answer is you have fucking manual locks and door handles that don’t require you to pry open a panel.
The article says that some Model Ys don’t have a manual release on the rear doors. Can’t imagine how that passes any country’s safety standards.
The BMW manual door release is pulling the handle twice. This kind of negligence is insane and the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration should slap them with a punitive fine and a mandatory recall.
The ones in the rear are hidden under a mat in the door.
https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/modely/en_us/GUID-AAD769C7-88A3-4695-987E-0E00025F64E0.html
The model X requires you to remove the speaker grill to manually open the door.
You know, nice and intuitive.
Do these panels and speaker grills at least have a tooless design so they’re easy to remove if you’re aware of them? This design just sounds so dumb.
It looks like it, but they’re still hidden. If you didn’t know to look under a mat while you’re car is fire I doubt it would be easy to find.
The article also says that not all model Y have releases in the rear, so even if you know ‘well my model Y has them here’ you still might be screwed.
They do, but only in the front.
The only reason to use the button is that when you press it, it lowers the window slightly so that it clears the door trim when you open it (the windows are frameless).
Although, I don’t see why that couldn’t have been integrated into a single mechanism rather than having two separate controls for the same function.
Absolutely terrible design if the window needs to be lowered on a frameless door before it can be opened.
My 2007 Subaru Impreza had frameless windows that don’t have this problem. The window makes a pressure seal against a gasket that does not impede the operation of the door in any way.
“seemingly”
Ye, it seemed like it so we just decided we’d rather burn alive than to actually try opening the door.
News titles sometimes
Fair, but at least they’re reporting it and connecting the dots re: this tesla safety issue, which I haven’t seen from any legacy media
Worried about libel, it is very likely that someone like Musk would sue.
If they said “It was the fault of Tesla that these people are dead” without proof and without it being a quote from someone else, they can be sued pretty easily.
Authorities are still investigating the crash and fire. But the details that we have so far implicate to some degree the electronic doors used by Tesla and other automakers, which require power to open.
The Elon Musk-owned automaker has a troubling history of owners getting locked in their cars without power. Some of these cases may be down to user error, since most Teslas come with manual release levers.
Of course, let’s blame the users 🙄
In the case of the model Y referenced, this release is under a mat. You wouldn’t see it in normal operation.
In case of emergency, lift the floor mat and input the 16 digit release code.
I don’t want to be a dick but not using the mechanism to open them is user error.
But it does also sound like they aren’t very well placed in some models. I feel like the manual release being the same as any car would make sense. As a fucking standard door handle.
I assume the no power locking is an anti theft thing. But if you’re in the car already just provide a handle.
If the door can’t be opened easily in a panicked life or death situation, it’s a design flaw and needs to be recalled and fixed.
I will be a dick: this is one of those imbeciles teck-bro takes, always comming with excuses for big tech "but actualy… "
If you design a door handle and people cannot open it: your design is shit. Point.
This was stupid when apple did it with the ‘you’re holding the phone wrong, idiot’, it is criminal when it is done on a security feature.
It is because people don’t get a full walk through of how to unlatch it later on…they might on delivery day but at that point people are excited about a new car and not paying attention. And then because they never use it, they forget it exists
Opening a Rear Door with No Power
You can open a rear door manually (if equipped) in the unlikely situation in which Model Y has no power:
- Remove the mat from the bottom of the rear door pocket.
- Press the red tab to remove the access door.
- Pull the mechanical release cable forward.
Note
Not all Model Y vehicles are equipped with a manual release for the rear doors.
Opening the front doors seems easy enough in the user manual, but opening the back doors requires you to remove a hidden panel then pull a cable, but not all versions of the car even have that hidden panel. Assuming the one in this article did, the car owner would need to give a little safety briefing to every passenger if you want to expect them to know how to open the door. And I’m really not sure what you’re expected to do if you have a kid in a carseat in the back.
Explain to me how the engineers aren’t guilty of manslaughter?
Look, I lasted one semester at engineering school, washed all the way out almost immediately. I still had to write a 10-page case study on an engineering failure, and the one I chose was the McDonnell-Douglas DC-10 cargo door failures. They teach this shit in failing community colleges in purple states. The buck stops with the PE that signed the plans. Drag his ass into criminal court. The person who allowed this design to go to production does not need to be free.
The people who design the Tesla cars are not engineers. They’re a bunch of tech geeks who think they’re engineers.
I mean, ask yourself this why is. Every single automobile that exists today with the exception of the Tesla can handle rain and car washes with absolutely no issues and yet Teslas have to have a special button to close off certain parts of the car so that the air intake doesn’t get too wet otherwise the car ends up stinking horribly of mildew.
The people who design the Tesla cars are not engineers. They’re a bunch of tech geeks who think they’re engineers.
There is still someone’s signature.
If needed, liquidate company.
Where’s the Safety FMEA! Show me the FMEA!
Risk 3452.7: feature, door. Function, opens during fire, failure mode: won’t open during fire, trapping people inside. Cause: the darn things are electronic! So if the battery fails in a big ass fire with people inside, those fuckers are gonna cook real good! Engineering controls in place to prevent the failure mode: 200,000 units delivered in time! As in it took time to deliver the units. Risk rank: 😉 it’s Frank! 😄 My name’s Frank! Not rank!
Well I’m glad we took time to mitigate these risks.
There are no PEs signing off on “consumer products,” or even little things like airplanes.
(Seriously, PEs are only relevant in engineering fields where design is easily governed by standards, such as HVAC and civil.)
There are absolutely engineers (with or without PE licenses, I’m not sure if that’s necessary in aerospace) signing off on airplanes, even after they’re built. For a mechanic to make a major modification or repair to an airframe or power plant it needs to be approved somehow, either covered by the airplane’s original Type Certificate and detailed in the maintenance manual, covered in a supplemental type certificate (STC), or they can work with an aeronautical engineer to design and approve the repair. I have forgotten the exact line between “you can get an A&P IA to approve this skin patch plate” and “You need to either call an AE to design a repair for this but it might be cheaper to buy a whole wing.”
I have a degree in aeronautical engineering, but I’m not a PE. It’s a very specific license in the US that isn’t applicable outside of a few engineering disciplines. There are no statutory requirements for a PE to sign off on a car or plane design; their safety is governed by other means.
Further investigation shows that three of the four had recently posted mean things about Elon Musk on Xitter. A representative from the company issued the following statement. “It is unfortunate that the fourth passenger, who was seemingly innocent of blasphemy, chose to associate with the guilty parties. Sometimes collateral damage has to occur in our attempt to cleanse the population.”
