“(With) today’s Supreme Court decision on presidential immunity, that fundamentally changed. For all practical purposes, there are virtually no limits on what the president can do. It’s a fundamentally new principle and it’s a dangerous precedent because the power of the office will no longer be constrained by the law even including the supreme court of the United States.”
Throughout his address, Biden underscored the gravity of the moment, emphasizing that the only barrier to the president’s authority now lies in the personal restraint of the officeholder. He warned vehemently against the prospect of Trump returning to power, painting a stark picture of the dangers such an outcome could pose.
Then fucking do something about it Joe! The DNC has been little more than passive observers to the raise of fascism.
Since we’re talking about a SCOTUS ruling, it would be on Congress to pass legislation.
And to follow up on @teodor_from_achewood@lemmy.world’s comment, the Democratic National Committee is a private party organization that supports Democratic candidates in elections. They have nothing to do with passing legislation.
It’s on Biden to personally demonstrate to SCOTUS just how dangerous the ruling was.
I deeply disagree with this take. If we actually care about the Constitution and upholding what it stands for, then we have to work to undo the damage caused by this race to the bottom, not participate in it.
No, Congress cannot pass legislation on this matter. The ruling says that the Constitution itself grants the President immunity, so it would take a Constitutional amendment to change it.
No, Congress cannot pass legislation on this matter.
Sure they can. They can pass legislation that says “The President of the United States of America does not have criminal immunity from official acts taken as President.”
Once that’s done, a case would have to be identified and charged. The President would need to do something that would be considered a crime, and would be considered an official act, then be charged with that crime. Then it would follow its way through the legal process - district court, appeals court, en banc, eventually landing at the Supreme Court, who would decide whether that legislation was constitutional.
There are plenty of unconstitutional laws still on the books, especially at the state level, “atheists cannot hold public office” is a great example. Of course, those laws are “unenforceable” under normal circumstances; these are not normal circumstances. We’ve seen how the fascists abuse the legal system. It would not surprise me one bit for them to latch on to one of those “still on the books” unconstitutional laws and attempt to enforce it, because throwing wrenches into the machinery is the point.
Using the “atheists cannot hold public office” example, it would be elementary to cause harm to someone’s campaign for elected office just by seeking to enforce an unconstitutional law. Drawing attention to the lack of religious belief in a candidate, forcing said candidate to defend themselves, getting the unwashed masses to go “Yeah! That’s what the law says!” because they’re too fucking stupid to understand that other court rulings have nullified that law.
Still. The DNC has systems in place to decide who to back in elections to pass legislation. Their messaging since 2015 has been embarrassing. They keep courting moderate conservatives that don’t exist and ignoring unrepresented potential voters who do. They talk about how they win elections when there’s good turn out without ever analyzing which candidates encourage high turnout. Americans want to feel represented in politics and we don’t. The Democrats need to do something that would weaken the democrat party but would weaken the Republican party more: they need to actively begin dismantling the two party system. We want election reform. We want the police to not be a hostile force against the general populace. We want the society we live in to benefit everyone and not just the kinds of people who can afford to finance an election campaign.
The polling exists. We all know that neither party represents or enacts what the people want do. The Democrats refuse to look around and see what’s happening, preferring to rearrange the deck chairs as the ship sinks because that’s the only thing they know to do. And you know? I can’t really blame them. We the people have also been rearranging the deck chairs. We live in a country that only benefits the top but we all still show up to do our duties without looking at what’s going on in other countries where the people are standing up to their authoritarian oppressors.
The worst part is the fascists know what they’re doing. They know to decay the structure by raising the temperature because we’ve become too complacent. We need to stand up to fascism in a way that we haven’t ever since McArthyism.
The DNC has systems in place to decide who to back in elections to pass legislation.
No it does not.
This is an interpretation of the constitution, so what congress needs to do it to amend the constitution to explicitly state the president is not immune, and good luck getting that through
They can amend it or they can pass law citing a different part of the constitution or other judicial precedent, then if it gets challenged the Supreme Court would have to rule on the constitutionality of it’s latest legal justification.
Hopefully after we replace six justices.
It doesn’t do what it should.
The point of the party is supposed to be long-term strategy and putting the platform over any one person.
When people talk about what the DNC should be doing, it’s not some “gotchya” to point out that they’re not doing their job and leadership needs replaced.
It’s just proving their point
So because the National Committee’s short and long term strategy is not what you’d be doing, you think they’re not doing anything.
Do you do any local political organizing?
He’s so pissed about it he’s gonna do absolutely nothing!
You apparently want him to do illegal things because he can now get away with it?
edit: are basic norms being downvoted here because if republicans are corrupt af, we should not have any standards either?
Edit 2: you’re not teaching me anything by telling me the Republicans did something more fucked up first. Do you people honestly think Biden would/could murder political opponents. He obviously won’t. He shouldn’t. Jfc
Edit 3: yup I’m totally saying let’s do nothing about this. You people are brilliant.
Apparently “when the president does it, that means that it is not illegal” is now law.
So again it’s now a matter of “what is allowed” vs “what is ethical or moral”…
We all joke about the high road of democratic vs gop approaches. But how much does the difference matter?
The hard part is we all get it, Biden is now technically allowed to do whatever. Is that a reason to immediately do the worst possible thing?
Should he now cast aside the law and commit hate crimes purely to prove a point?
The courts will never allow such a performative action, but they’ll allow the creep of fascism.
No, I want him to call their bluff and rise to the challenge of meeting this constitutional crisis. The top court in the land has gone off the rails, and seemingly in collusion with a concerted effort to destroy the rule of law.
Blithely waiting until the election to “let the people defeat Trump” is dereliction. This ruling may be curated in deference for Trump, but unless it is challenged forcefully it will not just go away on January 7th 2024 if Trump loses again. Because when the question of “What are ‘official acts’ v ‘private acts’ then?” comes up, it’ll go right back to the SCotUS the Heritage Foundation and their interpretations.
we should have standards. my standard for a fascist is that he should not exist.
Sure. Why not? It’s not like the next R in office wont do exactly that anyway.
Because morality and norms exist whether those corrupt fucks care about them or not.
But they’re not illegal things according to the highest court in the nation. That’s the entire point.
That doesn’t matter. I understand that premise and yet it still doesn’t matter
The Judiciary has decided that the Executive must not be beholden to neither the Legislative nor the Judiciary. This is terrible, because it breaks the separation of powers. Now, if only the Executive wasn’t beholden to any of the other powers to force the Judiciary to go back to reason… Oh, wait.
Irony aside: no, this isn’t a matter of not having standards, this is a matter of making sure that democracy is capable of perpetuating itself. If the organism gets infected by a virus that intends to mutate the whole thing into a degenerated parody of itself, it must send its antibodies. Not doing so means letting the last line of defense fall all by itself, which is even against the very spirit of the law.
We know for a fact Trump will use this to abuse his power as much as possible. The high road isn’t sitting down and taking it, it’s using the power that was just handed to you to do something about it. There practically is no such thing as “illegal” now when it comes to the president. Biden doesn’t need to commit murder to make a difference. He could, for example, expand the Supreme Court so the conservatives no longer have the advantage, or cancel student debt to get more supporters, or do anything other than cry about it.
The precedent shouldn’t be “they go low, we go high”, but “play stupid games, win stupid prizes”. He probably wouldn’t do anything because the aforementioned issue, but should just send an assassination squad on the 6 supreme court judges alongside with other politicians.
You’re suggesting Biden sends a government hit squad to assasinate supreme court judges?
Are you high?
yup I’m totally saying let’s do nothing about this. You people are brilliant.
What should we do then? The default assumption is nothing, give us something to actually work with or the assumption is true.
Not murder. I’m not knowledgeable enough to know. I know, no one ever admits this online so it’s probably weird to read
The default assumption is nothing
That is on you
The only thing you’re interested in is showing how much of a bigger person you are on the internet. What we’re doing is speaking about all the ways this is fucked up and hypotheticals about how it can go wrong. For a lot of us, this isn’t new. I my political life time alone, I saw 8 years of rights being eroded by the Bush II administration with no real push back and once Obama got in under the promise of fixing things, a whole lot of inaction on rolling back any of the rights violations.
The powers that be are taking advantage of how distributed the responsibilities of government are. If it’s so easy to lose rights, why is it so hard to gain them back. There’s always someone else to point at for why that is the case. In Nazi Germany, that was called The Banality of Evil. I see that everyday when some injustice is hand waved away as being too ingrained to do anything about. Police Reform? Too hard. Effective Climate Action? It would hurt the economy. The SC is eroding our rights? Have to wait for someone to die or retired(lol).
They are literally not illegal anymore. He can declare Trump to be a danger and send seal team six to execute him. He can forgive half of all student debt and transfer the other half to an unlucky dude in Oklahoma. He can forbid to be called Joseph to everybody else. He can cancel the elections. Very legal and very cool.
would you care to elaborate on what you believe should be done about this?
I’ve given up on this crowd. You didn’t say do nothing.
This crowd only understands their echo chamber. Unless you are 100% in agreement with them then you must 100% be against them.
In another post I challenged them to give one specific thing Biden can/should do to fix this. They couldn’t even come up with one item.
In another post I challenged them to give one specific thing Biden can/should do to fix this. They couldn’t even come up with one item.
Nice to run into you again, still posting this tired line huh? And you’re lying, because not only did I provide specifics, so did multiple other people (there’s more than just these, I’ve seen a ton). It seems that you might be caught in some sort of personal echo chamber.
Is there a reason you stop responding to people once they provide specifics?
I got one. Present a new bill that says supreme court judges are not for life with no chance to remove them.
Every 4 years on election years, but months before the presidential election, (so maybe spring/summer) they allow the general public to vote on their performance. If they get less than 65% approval rating, they’re out. They’ll be replaced by the new president, technically next year (since the election happens in November, but the inauguration is in January).
So if a court judge is less than 65% popular with the public, they’re gone.
And yes, I see the problem of “but the nation is so divided right now that neither side could get that approval rating, and all 12 judges would just be replaced every 4 years…”
Which is partially by design. We need a system that fundamentally breaks all systems that keep corrupt people in power, and actively discourages the media, and politicians from taking this “us vs them” mentality.
A republican SHOULD be presenting their set of ideas that benefit ALL Americans.
A democrat SHOULD be presenting a different set of opposing ideas that benefit ALL Americans.
And the public should vote on what will benefit them most. There should be no such thing as career democrats, or career republicans. It should be a free flowing liquid set of ideas that get catagorized as democrat this time, but based on the people in the election, maybe next time you’re catagorized as more republican than the other guy. So, this election you’re republican instead.
Because everybody is so concerned about “The other side”, that everybody forgets one key thing. It may be two sides, but they’re two sides to the same coin. That coin is America. Right now, and for the past 8 years, that coin has been just falling to the ground.
Unless you are 100% in agreement with them then you must 100% be against them.
I know what you mean. It’s pretty freaking sad. This isn’t facebook, where there’s an 80% chance I have horrid views if you think I might have them. Yet they behave like it’s facebook.
So, Biden can order seal team 6 to permanently fix the Supreme Court by removing 6 and leaving 3 alive. Gotcha.
After all, those 6 argued that he has the right to do so.
Democrats will continue to give sternly worded remarks all the way up to their appointment with the gallows, so brave!
Democrats will continue to give sternly worded remarks all the way up to their appointment with the gallows, so brave!
When They Go Low, We Go Die
Chapter 3
Marjorie smiled with great satisfaction as she looked at the crowd and began to check the rifle in her arms to make sure there was a round in the chamber.
2 men with giant beer guts - who each wore different flavors of Punisher-style skull masks and were covered head to toe in pointlessly elaborate tactical surplus gear as if they were cosplaying their favorite Call of Duty characters - began dragging another elderly man up to the makeshift platform.
The white-haired old man was dressed in a finely tailored dark blue suit with a little American flag lapel pin next to his tie. It looked so similar to the one that so many others in his cohort had adorned for probably the last 20 or so years, but he had been blindfolded by the men before being brought before the stage so he couldn’t see how many others still wore it or who had switched to the golden lion that… “the others…” now wore exclusively.
The octogenarian ghost of a man feebly began to speak (not shout) loudly in protest as if trying to reason with whomever might be in charge, but the 2 pig-like men grinned and said nothing. They began tying his hands behind him against a wooden pole covered with small holes, indentations and spatters of red. As the grinning pigs both stepped away from the geriatric man secured to the pole, the mob just below him roared with wild bloodlust over his inaudible words drowning them out over and over again with : “USA! USA! USA! USA!”
Marjorie laughed and took one hand away from the rifle to quiet the crowd so they could hear the old man’s words :
“Point of order, Mr. Chairman! Point of order! I’m reclaiming my time! I’d like the gentle-lady to put down the firearm she just picked up, Mr. Ch-”
…he was cut off with a loud and sudden BANG as he slumped into a dark puddle of red slowly expanding across the stage floor.
The crowd roared and resumed its repeated chant…
…and another blindfolded well-dressed elderly figure was walked up to the pole.
Quoting the entire comment you’re replying to is kinda redundant
Only if he claims it’s an official act though! Don’t forget that part! Write “official act as president” on everything!
It doesn’t have to be an executive order, he’s in charge of the military. Any command he gives them is an official act, and can’t be questioned now.
And then he can pardon them as they don’t have the same immunity as he now has. Pardons are also official acts.
It is up to congress to stop that not the courts. He should be impeached if he tries that.
Congress can expand the court to put the corrupt asses in minority and them the ruling can be reversed
Just tell Joe that there are six Palestinian children on the court and he’ll get right on it.
If only he were in some position of power to do something about it hmmmmmm.
He doesn’t. Impeaching judges is the House’s job.
You know your house rep is up for election this year?
Yeah but now he’s above the law, so I say do it anyway and overturn the ruling his damn self.
It sets precedents that you might not want, because if Trump or one of his cronies get into the oval office, they can do the same thing.
Legally … but the law doesn’t apply to the president so long as they’re doing it for a reason they believe to be official.
The ruling more or less explicitly states that Biden could go on national television, say “Won’t someone rid me of these troublesome justices?”, have them assassinated, and face no legal repercussions because using the bully pulpit is covered by presidential immunity
The law applies to the president always.
Here is what this ruling is for -
First - if I order an enemy of the US dead I can be prosecuted.
The president orders an enemy dead. That enemy is killed. The president cannot be prosecuted for that act.
What this ruling does - the president may also not be prosecuted for that act after they leave office.
That’s all this does. That’s it. If the president kills a maid in the White House he or she will go to prison because that is against the law and not within the duties of the office.
– again
they’ll still find some other excuse not to do anything the next time around.
Old enough to remember when Dems did control the House, but it didn’t do anything useful.
Dumbass and spineless Biden and Democrats. The supreme court literally just started that America had a king but this dumbass party would rather take some stupid fucking high road bullshit instead of playing the game to ensure the fascist fuck around and find out.
They don’t even have to resort to assassinations, they could really tell the IRS to audit 501© and remove their status from the churches and bullshit Republican charities, or tell the justice department to focus on domestic terrorism and corruption to fuck over Republican groups and representatives, or tell the FDA to allow the sale of raw milk.
Play the god damn game and be the fucking king if these corrupt justice says there’s a king.
That is a guaranteed path to fascism.
I’m not gonna say that the chances are good, but if they refuse, and win, and then walk back the changes, maybe fascism can be averted.
If they walk into using these tools and normalise them even more, then when the other party gets the government again, you get a republican fascist, and if the other party never gets the government again, it’s because you got a “democrat” fascist.
Don’t race to the bottom, everyone loses there.
No, you use the fascist power granted by fascists to abuse the fascists who granted it in the first place. Power is the only thing that stops fascists. Start with a few nights in a black site for the justices who thought granting absolute power to the president was OK. If scotus already accepts fascism from their team it’s already too late for your plan to work.
So fascist powers for the fascists, but not for the non-fascists.
Get rid of all thet right now with whatever means IMO.
then walk back the changes
When have the Democrats ever shown us that they’ll do that?
Roe? Voting Rights act? Hell, a Republican had to save ObamaCare.
Democrats aren’t going to save us from FASCISM. The sooner everyone realizes this, the more prepared we’ll be to fight against it.
Well we have a 2 party system, and that ain’t changing. So if not the Democrats, who?
I honestly don’t know why anyone is strategising as if they’re on the same side as dems or any politician. I’m not even convinced we have a common enemy in Trump, because they don’t seem serious about beating him.
The question you should ask when voting is “Who is my preferred enemy?” Biden won’t abuse the carte blanche immunity from criminal prosecution? Great, sounds like he’s the weaker enemy, so vote for him. Force him to keep the position he clearly doesn’t want. Force him to disappoint his base for another four years.
While he’s doing that, get to work building alternatives that meet people’s needs from the bottom up and wean them off of this criminal system, to undermine it and prepare people to thrive as it crumbles.
The great thing about this political theory of change is that it’s the same regardless of who’s in power. It decouples you from the capricious, disempowering shifts of electoral politics.
they could really tell the IRS to audit 501© and remove their status from the churches and bullshit Republican charities
That would be juuuuuust about the dumbest thing they could possibly do. It would mobilize gigantic swaths of voters who are heavily invested in rhetoric over fact-checking.
Doing away with Roe mobilized many of those voters who could be considered to be fence sitters towards the left. Removing church tax exemptions would move them right back and it would do NOTHING to solve the problem, because while the actual big offenders are happily USING the hell out of that tax exemption, they’re rich enough that they’ll get along fine without it.
It WOULD hurt a whole lot of TINY churches that employ 1-50 people per church and actually do community work, though. All of those would go away. That’s a LOT of rural food shelves.
I’m largely against the religious tax exemption, but that’s a problem we should worry about AFTER we can replace the nationwide infrastructure we’d be dismantling by doing so with something at least as effective as what’s there now.
But is he wrong? From Nixon, to Reagan, to Newt GIngrich, to Mitch McConnell to Trump, the Democrats have been feckless and refused to halt this march to fascism. They are complicit by tacit acceptance. This need to adhere to some vague Status Quo (Capitalist Donor Class) is why we are in this situation. It’s time to wake up and realize the Marxists were right all along. You can’t compromise with Capitalism.
Ah yes not understanding the small cultural differences of minority policies being used to pretend the difference between the sides while on the broader spectrum being the exact same. Not to forget when it comes to foreign affairs all brown people rights go out of the window.
If both sides weren’t the same the Dems would make an effort to save the things you mentioned above. They’re not doing that.
