…
She set a tone at the very start when she walked right into his space to shake his hand and made him almost pull back into himself in response. She was in charge and never stopped being in charge.
Harris also managed what neither Joe Biden nor Hillary Clinton nor any of the 2016 Republicans managed to do which is successfully bait Donald Trump and get under his skin. Within a few minutes Trump was visibly angry and not in a way that empowered him but in a way that made him lose focus, go down rabbit holes and generally go off onto damaging tangents. Spittle anger, not righteous anger, shall we say.
So…no…I disagree strongly with this analysis.
Yes…for reasonable people…Kamala slaughtered Trump.
But that’s not what his base cares about. They’re the dregs of society that get off on WWF and whatever MTV is these days. He yelled more, he made sensational completely bullshit off the cuff lies, and he rolled over the moderators like a Karen going after the manager.
His base loved it. I think his message of fear, hate and bullshit was compelling (if you still read at a 6th grade level like the majority of Americans).
Yes…reasonable people know Kamala is a better candidate.
Do you really believe someone who is still undecided going into last night’s debate is a reasonable person?
Thank you!
I thought I was crazy looking at all these posts… You have to watch this as someone who knows next to nothing about politics. In that frame, Trump seemed wayyyyy stronger than Harris. I was actually really disappointed at so many opportunities she passed up to lay down facts in favor of jumping on talking points… Trump kept spitting out “data” (lies, but the people who don’t pay much attention don’t know that) and so he appeared more knowledgeable than her, she just kept trying to attack him instead of actually responding to things… Hell, why did we keep the tarrifs? Why not just answer that for us?
One bit that drove me up the wall was when he went on about all the court cases that he “won” and had dismissed… For fucks sake Kamala that’s the perfect opportunity to discuss the heritage foundation and the corruption of the courts! Goddamn “judge” Cannon was the piece of shit doing Trump’s bidding and tossing these cases… That’s a perfect example to provide to the people as to why court reform is important and she could have created a distinction between them, but no she goes back to a talking point that I can’t even remember what it was…
You have to watch this as someone who knows next to nothing about politics. In that frame, Trump seemed wayyyyy stronger than Harris.
Look just say as an idiot, it’s way shorter. As an idiot, loud shouty man seemed stronger? If you have no life experience, sure. Loud shouty men look out of control with their emotions, weak, and easily manipulated…which is exactly how Trump seemed to anyone who wasn’t an idiot.
Trump kept spitting out “data”
Spittle isn’t data.
Look, she didn’t do perfectly, but she also was alloted much less time and the breaks for commercials(?!) seemed to always screw her over. You’re never going to respond to every point in an angry gish gallop and she did about as good as anyone could in my opinion.
I mean, for fuck’s sake, as the article says, he lost the exchange on the Afghanistan withdrawal.
But I don’t mean idiot, I meant what I said. If anything ignorant would be more concise and keep my meaning. If for some reason you don’t pay attention to politics but still find yourself watching the debate Trump seemed to have a lot of responses to criticism and “answers” to problems even if they were all lies.
The end was absolutely infuriating, of course Trump gets the last word… “Why haven’t you done any of what you said you want to do already?”
… because we have a fucking Republican Congress! Again any ignorant person wouldn’t recognize that and would accept what he said as truth. It makes sense in a way, if you’re in power now then why aren’t you doing something? That one is not Kamalas fault though, that’s ABC always letting Trump have the last word… :/
I was actually really disappointed at so many opportunities she passed up to lay down facts in favor of jumping on talking points
So let’s say she corrects him on a lie. Then what? Correct the next one? The one after that? The one after that? Trump had more lies than Kamala had time.
Responding to lie after lie after lie just lets him control the conversation. What she did was the best option available.
Oh yea, that was a debate point I hated too…she’s billing herself as the prosecutor, but when he started uttering complete bullshit about the cases he won, she didn’t go after it.
Come on Kamala, fucking get him… that’s a underhanded softball pitch thrown by a 6 year old, kill it. Instead she took the safe single and went back to policy.
They’re the dregs of society that get off on WWF and whatever MTV is these days.
People are climaxing to the World Wildlife Fund?
FYI It was renamed WWE in 2002…
As others said, she would mainly be converting independent voters and potentially some Republican leaning voters that don’t actually like Trump but are hesitant to cross party lines.
But I also think it’s likely that his terrible performance and obvious weakness could be demoralizing to his more devoted followers. The people who buy into the stable genius strong man image he is so desperate to project got a chance to see just what a sad old wreck of a human being he is. Even if virtually none of them switch sides, a decline in enthusiasm likely translates into slightly fewer donations, slightly less engagement, and ultimately slightly less voter turnout.
To put it another way, did Biden’s debate performance convert his base into Trump voters? No. But, it sure as hell had an effect on them.
I can tell you, based on what the conservatives were posting last night, they were excited as hell about Trump’s performance.
It’s weird…so fucking weird. You people (conservatives) are reasonable in real life, how can you watch this shit show and be excited about it?
I would expect the Trump supporters that are posting (particularly the ones posting as they watch) to post their support and approval for everything Trump says and does. Any that are disappointed or discouraged by what they saw are probably more likely to say nothing. People are quick to express the knee-jerk reaction they want to have, but it often takes time to process when they feel let down.
I mean, yes, absolutely, there have to be people who nodded in agreement at everything Trump said, who were excited when he brought up the immigrants eating pets, who felt that Trump was the only sane one there. But there also had to be some that were frustrated with what they were seeing, and who now have a little less energy to devote to the election. Will the latter group be large enough to have an impact? We’ll have to wait and see.
Undecided are largely not actually undecided. They mostly vote along party lines. The point, in the current political climate, is to demotivate turnout of the other side’s undecided. And I think based on that, this was a deep loss for Trump. Outside the pundit sphere, he was literally a punchline and joke the entire night. Memes of the hilariously dumb shit he spewed almost instantly sprouted up and are all over the place.
Do you really believe someone who is still undecided going into last night’s debate is a reasonable person?
It’s not just about president it’s about party. Someone might not like Trump. But at the same time dislike democratic policies and democrats as a party.
So now the have to decide. Do they go against Republicans due to their candidate? Hearing Kamala debate him might convince them that yeah… ok. They’re not THAT bad… at least they (democrats) are better than him (Trump)
I think there are people who have conservative values which they believe are better for the country but also struggle with the thought of supporting Trump. For those people, last night’s debate probably pushed them further away from him. Some may go to Harris which is the hope.
I wish she would have invited those people directly in her closing statement. Something along the lines of “If you don’t agree with me, I’m hear to listen and understand why. Together, we can move forward instead of going back to chaos and anger and division “
I don’t think there’s any chance of converting his base, though. Surely what she needed to do - and what it sounds like she did, I haven’t finished listening to the debate yet - is persuade everyone else to vote for her? His base alone isn’t enough to guarantee him a win if there’s a strong showing for Harris, as happened for Biden in 2020
It’s disappointing that all it took for a headline like “no one has ever so thoroughly dominated Donald Trump” was a question-dodging stereotypical politician. I was very frustrated by the entire debate. Trump’s word salad and Kamala’s deflection kung-fu… but I understand that I am not the only person in the US, so emotionally charged anecdotes instead of clear answers are what wins the day. But still…
I just finished watching the debate myself, I don’t know if she dodged more than once, she certainly didn’t do as much dodging as he did. But she 100% dodged answering why the Biden administration hasn’t removed Trump-era tariffs without even a hint of addressing it. I’m not a big fan of what that entails, I think globalization in US economy might be coming to a screeching halt no matter who gets elected.
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He says he won and his supporters believe it. That’s all they need. Doesn’t matter if he was dominated or not.
Keep in mind, Blue MAGA here tried to claim Biden won his debate.
It’s obligatory for those on a team to claim they win. If you were voting for Harris before the debate, you are still voting for Harris after the debate. If you were voting for Trump, there is almost no chance that changed based on this debate.
If you are on the right and not voting for Trump this election, you probably aren’t voting. Cheney isn’t bringing votes to the Democrats.
The votes left to get (amongst registered) are leftists who are still struggling to vote for a candidate who supports a genocide. You won’t get them abusing them with the idea that they need to sacrifice their morals for a candidate. Only the candidate can get those voters, and they can only do so with a policy shift. It’s probably about 2.5 to 5 percent of registered Democrats s in this bucket. More than enough to make or break the Harris candidacy.
https://www.mapresearch.org/democracy-maps/voter_registration_deadlines
The only other option for more votes is to create more registered voters (link above). So we’re very rapidly coming up to the point where neither the Harris or Trump campaign can j crease their vote share in the critical states that are going to decide this election.
Using the relatively well established rule of about 2 weeks for information to filter through the news and to emerge in polling, and the consideration that the voter registration deadline is coming up, that we should expect a policy shift from Harris around October 12th -16th. This is simply because there really aren’t any more votes for the campaign to get once the registration deadlines begin to pass.
The votes left to get (amongst registered) are leftists who are still struggling to vote for a candidate who supports a genocide.
I can’t tell if you’re being genuine and clueless or malicious.
Let’s assume you’re the former first. WaPo did a pretty cool piece with undecided swing voters during the debate. It resulted in a small but significant shift left. You can check it out here: https://www.washingtonpost.com/elections/interactive/2024/presidential-debate-voter-poll/
Unfortunately, I’m going to assume the latter. To quote Kamala, “This is the same tired old playbook” the Russian troll farms trotted out when Biden was in the race. I’m not sure if you’re one of those that fell for it or if you’re a troll yourself, but it’s not working anymore. If Trump were in office, he’d gleefully tell Netanyahu to bomb Palestine out of existence. If this is going to be a talking point, at least discuss it in good faith.
I’ve never heard anyone claiming that Biden won his debate. I’ve heard some say it was survivable, which it was not. Having watched both debates, I think it’s pretty safe to say that Biden lost his and Harris won hers. Both with rather big margins.
Trump and his followers are truth proclaimers, not truth seekers. They believe truth is dictated by consensus, volume, devotion, etc because that’s what their religion and their narcissistic delusions teach them. Everyone else knows that truth is something to be analyzed and determined, not proclaimed.
So in general, yeah it’s a waste of time paying attention to what their reaction is. They’re a predictable bunch.
They believe truth is dictated by consensus, volume, devotion, etc because that’s what their religion and their narcissistic delusions teach them. Everyone else knows that truth is something to be analyzed and determined, not proclaimed.
It’s the same old shit the Nazis did.
I don’t think you can use a racist cult as a measuring stick. Of course it doesn’t matter to them, that doesn’t mean it doesn’t matter at all.
But it also reassures anyone hesitant about her ability to hold her own as a leader. Her real job was not coming off as a political hack from a desperate party. And instead she played him like a concert fucking pianist.
Just like for almost 4 years the American ppl have been played like “a concert fucking pianist”?
See ya at the pump. Or the grocery store. Or living behind a 7 Eleven because housing prices are out of control.
Look at the deeds, not the words. She is part of the current administration and cannot run from her track record.
Dominated.
