I’m glad there is no money in the Federation. Unless you count credits. Which are not money. Unless you use thousands of them to pay the Barzans. Or give them to Starfleet officers to buy things like tribbles and drinks at Quark’s.
While Federation Credits are money, I was under the impression they were only really used when you want to buy stuff outside of the Federation from sellers who don’t share the same socialist society that the Federation has. On a Federation world I believe they wouldn’t have much value.
DS9 was not a Federation station, and the Bajorans were clearly ok with a capitalist presence. Giving Starfleet personnel a stipend seems pretty unavoidable if they want their officers to be able to partake in practically anything on DS9.
But that gives them inherent value and would end up being traded internally. And then people would buy up stuff from outside the Federation and charge people in the Federation for those things in credits so that those people don’t have to travel off-planet to get those desirable things.
And as I said, they gave thousands of credits to the Barzans, so credits are obviously worth something when exchanged back to the Federation too.
On top of that, in TOS, there is a scene where someone wagers with credits (conceptually, but it basically sounded like a thing). To add to that, credits were being used on Space Station K-7, a Federation space station, or Uhura would not have been able to purchase a Tribble and Cyrano Jones wouldn’t have been there selling them.
I’m afraid we will have to accept that Federation economics makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
I think it’s more of a universal basic income sort of deal. Every federation citizen has all their needs met without being required to work. But that doesn’t mean there isn’t an economy or there’s no money.
But then we have this problem dialogue from First Contact:
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: The economics of the future are somewhat different. You see, money doesn’t exist in the 24th century.
Lily Sloane: No money? You mean you don’t get paid?
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: The acquisition of wealth is no longer the driving force in our lives. We work to better ourselves and the rest of humanity. Actually, we’re rather like yourself and Dr. Cochrane.
You could argue that he was simplifying things, but I think Picard would have understood that Lily was smart enough to not make that necessary. He could have just as easily said just said the “economics of the future are somewhat different” part without the money part and the whole section of dialogue would have made much more sense. Saying that money doesn’t exist is pretty much just a lie.
So I still maintain that none of it makes sense because it’s all contradictory.
But that gives them inherent value
Yes.
and would end up being traded internally.
Maybe. But pretty much everything is provided for free on Earth (and presumably elsewhere in the Federation?), so while it has value, I imagine the vast majority wouldn’t care, it’d be valueless to them.
And then people would buy up stuff from outside the Federation and charge people in the Federation for those things in credits so that those people don’t have to travel off-planet to get those desirable things.
If replicators and such can provide basically everything free of charge, you’d have very little desire to earn money and buy things.
I don’t really remember anything about the Barzans or the giving of credits to them, so I can’t really talk about that.
And as for TOS, yeah, TOS is all over the place. They also have hundreds of mirror Earths, a German Nazi planet, Gangster Earth, etc. the whole series is a little all over the place and contradictory.
Maybe. But pretty much everything is provided for free on Earth (and presumably elsewhere in the Federation?), so while it has value, I imagine the vast majority wouldn’t care.
It’s also established that there are things which can’t be replicated, or not replicated properly, so they have to buy those.
And we can’t just say, “well TOS just doesn’t count” because it’s canon. Very established canon in many, many ways. And Lower Decks especially has gone out of its way to make everything people don’t like about Star Trek part of the canon.
As far as the Barzans-
Premier Bhavani of the Barzanian Planetary Republic hosted the bidding parties aboard the USS Enterprise-D. During the negotiations, Mendoza represented the Federation’s interests and presented their proposal, including: a lump sum payment of 1,500,000 Federation credits would be made upon conclusion of agreement, 100,000 credits per Barzanian year thereafter, the Barzanian Planetary Republic would be an equal partner in proceeds of operational revenues of venture, Barzanian personnel would be employed as principal operating staff of ground-based support facility, long-term economic, technical, and educational assistance would be provided by United Federation of Planets, and Barzan II would benefit from increased planetary security due to protection by Starfleet, with a potential agreement term that would have expired stardate 53000.
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Barzan_wormhole
Credits obviously have significant value.
This was commonly brought up on DaystromInstitute on reddit, but while DS9 is a Bajoran station it’s run and maintained by Starfleet. Quark still has to “pay” for using the staion’s power, using station personnel for repairs and maintenance, and likely some form of rent. In lieu of actually paying money to fulfill those debt, the equivalent amounts are credited to the station personnel. Which they can use to order drinks or meals, reserve the holosuite, play darts or dabo, and so on.
In one episode Inparticular, Sisko was leveraging into Quark about actually charging his rent…so it kinda lines up.
Yet, people still work normal jobs on earth. You have people serving tables because they feel like it? Families like the Picards that have vast orchards and a huge manse for generations?
The utopia has never really made sense outside of starfleet having their own internal economy that’s basically only limited by raw resources for energy to construct more starships / space stations.
“Let’s see, time to write a Star Trek episode. Says here the Federation doesn’t use money. Welp, no idea how to write a story without it so… the Federation has money now. Man, this is easy!”
I think it works as a sort of reverse local currency that the federation administration exchanges at given rates for trade outside the federation, but cannot be spent within its domain and has no direct value to its citizens.
We also know that at least energy credits / transporter rations exist, so my guess is the actual currency is the power required to do things, like transport or replication. Average people in the federation probably have a fairly large allotment of energy to spend for themselves and rarely need any extra, so they have no real use for the currency aside from interacting with other cultures or possibly exchanging it with the federation’s external commerce administration.
The UFP doesn’t have an internal currency, per se, but other planets, species, etc do. In maintaining trade and relations they still provide goods and services which, depending on the race, would be more inclined to pay for it instead of trade or barter. Maybe those funds get distributed as sort of a UBI for all citizens, or added to a slush fund for those involved in said transactions? Bob the federation civilian has 10,000 Fed Credits, which can be used to purchase a bottle of Klingon Blood wine and hand crafted Mek’Leth the next time he catches a ride on a Federation transport to Qo’noS.
Maybe even on a starship, supply runs or something like it are done which ends in compensation of some sorts. Those funds can get distributed to the crew, so next time they’re in port on another planet they can purchase local goods.
I just want a fucking replicator and a holodeck. I’d be set for life with those two things.
Also: Quark wouldn’t accept credits would he? I thought he only cared about gold pressed latinum, which is treated like cash and even comes in various denominations (slips, strips and bars). IIRC from one of the first season episodes of DS9, Starfleet stationed there are given like 5 slips a week or something. Which is barely anything at all.
Quark is ferengi, he’ll accept anything of value, for a modest fee of course oh and you’d have to factor in the premium for currency conversion + a little extra on top for the effort to go out and convert credits. Then there’s also the middle man fee, the convenience fee and the using-credits-on-a-weekend fee…
