CDs are in every way better than vinyl records. They are smaller, much higher quality audio, lower noise floor and don’t wear out by being played. The fact that CD sales are behind vinyl is a sign that the world has gone mad. The fact you can rip and stream your own CD media is fantastic because generally remasters are not good and streaming services typically only have remastered versions, not originals. You have no control on streaming services about what version of an album you’re served or whether it’ll still be there tomorrow. Not an issue with physical media.
The vast majority of people listen to music using equipment that produces audio of poor quality, especially those that stream using ear buds. It makes me very sad when people don’t care that what they’re listening to could sound so much better, especially if played through a hifi from a CD player, or using half decent (not beats) headphones.
There’s plenty of good sounding and well produced music out there, but it’s typically played back through the equivalent of two cans and some string. I’m not sure people remember how good good music can sound when played back through good kit.
I have a portable record player that I Bluetooth stream to my wireless earbuds and I think you’re wrong.
I consider myself an audiophile.
I have a high-end turntable and playback system (very nice speakers, as well as planar magnetic headphones), and I listen to my vinyl both directly and vinyl-ripped-to-digital (i.e. a CD). I do like what vinyl does to the sound, often combined with the better mastering that was done back in the day, as compared to the brick-wall mastering most albums are put through nowadays.
I have done a few experiments in the past where I play vinyl “live” and switch (a/b/x) to a a vinyl->CD rip, and I cannot tell the difference. Nor can my friends.
I consider myself an audiophile.
Vinyl has better artwork.
Vinyl requires more effort to listen too, forcing the listener to be a part of the listening experience.
In addition to the arguments mentioned before and yours:
CD’s wear out just by existing
Vinyl looks better in every way
BUT
CD’s have a usable index for those times that you are not listening to a whole album
CD’s are so much lighter
If you rip the CD’s to FLAC’s the weight reduction is increased multifold
CD’s take up way less space
ALSO
I don’t like the smell of either
I listened tape all the way up to my discman D201
The problem with CDs is that digital storage media is better in every way, and a streaming service is arguably better.
New vinyl purchases many times include a digital download too.
You’re making multiple arguments here and trying to wrap them up into one.
CDs are in every way better than vinyl records. They are smaller, much higher quality audio, lower noise floor and don’t wear out by being played.
Most of these aren’t universal positives for most people.
Economy of space is not a big concern for me when it comes to physical media. Playing physical media is a ritual more than anything for most folks, and I want to hold that giant 13"x13" cardboard sleeve in my hands while listening to the music, not toss around a little plastic jewelcase.
On audio quality: that has been debated on audiophile forums for decades now and the most political conclusion to it is that: music sounds best on the format it was mastered for. Not all music was (properly) mastered for digital.
The bit about LPs “wearing out” is overstated to say the least and 99/100 times, that degradation comes from poor setups. Other than that, you’re kind of just describing a alluring fault of analog media. The fact that a piece of plastic can change with you over time as you listen to it, at the exact pace you set it to and in an environment you create, humanizes it and helps build a connection in a way that files on a computer don’t really do. Let’s not act like disc rot isn’t a thing, either.
The fact you can rip and stream your own CD media is fantastic because generally remasters are not good
Funny, because CDs were one of the first examples of shitty remasters in the 90s. You can also rip LPs with minimal effort, too.
streaming services typically only have remastered versions, not originals. You have no control on streaming services about what version of an album you’re served or whether it’ll still be there tomorrow. Not an issue with physical media
None of this supports “CDs are better than vinyl records.”
On the rest of your post, none of that really supports CD > Vinyl, either. If you’re talking about how people interact with their music and the equipment they do it through, there’s far more support for analog setups than CD.
With analog, you can actually make real, physical, adjustments to the audio output. On digital, you’re effectively just messing with a bunch of 1s and 0s inside a computer. The whole process is much less authentic.
👊🎤
Like, I get your points but
With analog, you can actually make real, physical, adjustments to the audio output. On digital, you’re effectively just messing with a bunch of 1s and 0s inside a computer. The whole process is much less authentic.
That’s just damn ridiculous. The signal gets converted into audio, otherwise you wouldn’t be able to hear it.
Well, yes, but I’m referring to the process of converting that audio and the active participation that it takes from the user to get to that point. I’m reminded of this one minute clip of Jeremy Clarkson where he talks about Charles Babbage’s ‘alluring uncertainty of machinery’, which I kind of alluded to in my parent comment. The process of setting up, adjusting, equalizing, etc., an analog setup just feels more real in a way that’s hard to explain. Obviously Clarkson is talking about cars in the video, but I think it applies just as well to any sort of machine whose output is essentially “built” by you. Knowing my audience on Lemmy, it’s the difference between Windows and Linux. One might perform out-the-box better than the other, but the other is yours in a way that the first one never will be. That’s the difference between experiencing music through an analog or digital setup.
The whole process is much less authentic.
I remember reading a letter to the editor in Stereophile magazine 30 years ago, when tube amps were coming back into style after decades of transistor and semiconductor amps. The reader pointed out that the language used in a review to describe the benefits of tube amps was ridiculous, and that calling the output “warm” or “intimate” (or dare I say, “authentic”) compared to semiconductor amps was simply an admission that the tube amps were making a change to the audio output that was not part of the original recording.
The function of an audio reproduction and amplification system, the author pointed out, was to reproduce the audio signal as accurately as possible to capture the content of the original recorded signal. Full stop. Anything else is nonsense.
There is no discussion about audio quality. Zero. Zilch. Nada. Nothing. You can talk about the format, cds being less nice to handle with that awkward plastic box which always breaks. But not about the audio quality. Its measurable.
Yes, perfectly pressed vinyl can sound fantastic on very hq hifi. But it will crack. It will hiss. It will degrade each time you play the record. Thats not up for debate. How much, or how little, that is up for debate. And also, how you store your vinyl has a big impact on how they age. (but the medium will always age) Anyway :thats what you are referring too. How much. But how much isn’t the issue: it is, unmistakenly, always there. It’s physics. You can’t deny it.
On the same hq hifi setup a hq hifi (super) cd player will at the very least sound equally good. It will never hiss. It will never crack. It will never pop. It will not degrade.
Most times it will sound better. It will always sound cleaner. But we don’t like cleaner. We like stuff that creeks. We, people, like things which seem to “live”. It makes it easier to relate too. It’s why we cannot say goodbye to big steamengines of bygone eras. Its why we loooove the sound of high octane ICE’s and still use them a lot while we all know electric is probably better in every way. And the same applies to music: the pops and hisses make it sound more authentic, more alive. And this is where science goes of the rails and feelings take over. Its a slippery slope.
Op is talking about the loudness war. Look it up, its a real thing, but reading your comment you must be aware already. “remasters” these days are all most always oversteered in every way possible because… Reasons. I recently listened to a vinyl remaster of a 90s dance record: horrible on hifi. But sufficient on a Bluetooth phonogram player.
Like you said: nobody plays on hifi anymore. So its getting remastered more and more for shit setups. Sonos. Bluetooth headphones and the likes. And while sounding nice, that is a far cry from hifi.
When playing your original cd’s you get the original remaster. Not that oversteered shit on apple music, youtube or Spotify which sound horrible on a hifi setup. There is a very definite difference. Easy to spot.
And tbh: I’m guilty too. I chose the comfort (ease of use) of sonos over the sound quality of a hifi setup. In the end it costed the same and my wife is happier without the cabling. Living (together) is always compromising ;).
I get why people chose vinyl. It’s the experience. It’s like smoking cigars in a lounge with some friends while drinking brandy. But like those cigars vinyl is not the best choice. But I do like cigars and brandy anyway…
And lastly: no. Ripping LPs is a tough job taking at least the playtime of the album. Cd’s can be ripped and the files automatically named in minutes.
Is ripping LPs complex? No. But it takes a good setup and it takes a lot of time. You dont need neither when ripping cd’s.
So, anyway: physics, science, support the statement “cds are superior to vinyl”. It’s measurable. You may not like it, you may miss the authenticity but the dynamic range coming of a cd vs lp setup (of the same cost, mind you) is almost always better.
But hey, I’m no bob Dylan. Who never was and still isn’t a fan of anything digital. He swears he misses something. I don’t. I look at the science and see better numbers for cds.
And I do believe that analog recordings of anything (sound and vision) can always be superior to digital. Digital always has a max. So many pixels. So many kbit. Analog does not have that problem. The only problem analog has, is the medium on which it is set on. That has limitations. And those limitations always always result in a lower quality then what you can easily achieve with digital. At home. (for a reasonable cost) add a megapixel. Add a mbit. In the end it will and has crossed the anolog boundaries of the used mediums far and wide.
Oh boy you made me bust out the desktop and keyboard for this one
Yes, perfectly pressed vinyl can sound fantastic on very hq hifi. But it will crack. It will hiss. It will degrade each time you play the record… It’s physics. You can’t deny it.
I mentioned this in my parent comment. The medium will respond to the environment that you listen to it in. For many, that connects you to the music. This has long since been acknowledged as a feature of analog media, not a shortcoming. Digital media comes with a sense of imposition, authority, that’s off-putting to people who have relationships with their music.
(super) cd player will at the very least sound equally good… It will always sound cleaner.
I’m going to strongly disagree with this and say that you weren’t around in the early 90s when all the classics were getting “Digitally Remastered” (butchered) for the first time, when producers were pushing every band as high as they could get away with because “louder is better.” It was hell with tracks peaking with distortion from disrespectful engineers. You even mention the Loudness War in your comment. How you can know about that and still conclude that CD is the universally superior format makes no sense to me. That goes back to my above point that music sounds best in the format it was mastered for. That format isn’t always CD.
We like stuff that creeks. We, people, like things which seem to “live”. It makes it easier to relate too… the pops and hisses make it sound more authentic, more alive. And this is where science goes of the rails and feelings take over. Its a slippery slope.
I touched touched on this in another reply, I won’t repeat myself but I’ll say that your idea that science says that there’s a best way to listen to music is ridiculous. There never has been a scientific way to measure how good music is and there never will be. You can measure bitrates, fiedlity, all you want, but the best way for art to exist will never have a universal answer. I assume you think oil on canvas painting is a waste of time because MS Paint exists?
He swears he misses something. I don’t. I look at the science and see better numbers for cds.
I’m just going to turn this around on you and leave it at that. You see better numbers, you think it’s better. I see a format that builds a relationship between the medium and user in a way that the other does, I think it’s better.
The fact that CD sales are behind vinyl is a sign that the world has gone mad.
Not really. It’s a sign that Vinyl has turned into a symbol of support for the creative ideals of musicians and romance for a bygone era, while CDs, superior as they are (except in the case of records in good repair being played on high quality turntables), are “just” things that hold digital music. They sold in insane numbers because they were the standard format until streaming truly took over. Sure, Vinyl sales are up to 40 million or so in the US, but the bigger thing is that the 37 million CD sales are down from almost a billion in each of 1999 and 2000.
As a vinyl dork who a huge music fan, it’s definitely a way to support artists but let’s not pretend that vinyl sound better, technically CDs will always be more clear, but I happen to enjoy the warmth of vinyl even if it’s not as perfect as CD audio.
Like watching a recording of a play and the play itself.
The recording won’t ever miss a line, is clean, a known quantity.
A play is great but also potentially imperfect which is possibly part of the experience some people look for.
Some might argue that both are recordings so why not get the cleaner one, LOL. ;-)
That said, I don’t really collect my music in any meaningful way, but I can still see the appeal of vinyl. The actual soundwaves from your favorite artist (theoretically… digital masters? What? :-) ) actually moved a membrane that was amplified to move a needle to cut a master, that was copied by mushing something hot and squishy until it had an imprint of those same actual soundwaves. It’s all very tactile and dramatic and connected. Like going to Grauman’s theater and seeing the stars’ handprints.
Then there’s the fact that the record could theoretically have captured sound that the digital process intentionally discards as part of its encoding algorithm. Something about that possibility of being nearer to perfection has to hold some appeal as well.
Plus the covers are pretty.
symbol of support for the creative ideals of musicians and romance for a bygone era
i think this is happening to CDs as we speak.
see: op
I see your point, but I don’t think you’re going to see quite the same reverence, precisely because it doesn’t have that visceral connection to the music and its creation that vinyl does. There has to be computing technology as an intermediary to get sound waves onto CDs, so at that point why not skip the middle man? Vinyl is also a more tactilely “old” technology, that’s still modern enough to have a practical setup around it. Think fountain pens or muscle cars with carburetors and no electronics. Then, there’s the fact that it’s deeply connected even to the terminology of the music industry. “Record,” “album,” “track,” even “single” all come from vinyl itself. The cultural cachet is unmatched.
People switched to CDs en masse because they were easier to live with than vinyl and a huge improvement over cassettes in every way (except height and width, LOL), but it was very transactional, so CDs were always apt to being replaced again if something even more convenient came along. Even in their heyday, there were people pining for the days of vinyl, and it’s the spiritual descendants of that crew that are keeping records alive. CDs will not disappear, and there will be a certain crew that appreciates all the things that made them a good mass market distribution medium, but I don’t think they’re going to inspire tastemakers the same way vinyl does.
I am getting old now, and I could be wrong, but it’s fun to predict. :-)
Apologies in advance for a long, perhaps boring, old man story. Feel free to skip it if you’d like.
Somehow, I mostly bypassed the vinyl era—not on purpose, just by how timing worked out. My parents and older siblings had vinyl records, which I found fascinating and played whenever I could. We also had a few 8-track tapes, but like many, we quickly realized they were not great and stopped using them.
When I was old enough to buy my own music with my fast-food job earnings, cassette tapes were the go-to choice. I wanted to listen to music on my Sony Walkman or the cassette player in my hand-me-down car, so cassettes made the most sense. My friends and I would drive around, wasting gas but having a blast singing along to our favorite tunes and bonding over our shared love of music.
I ended up with about 25 or 30 cassette tapes. When CDs came out, they were a game-changer. They were superior in almost every way, so I replaced most of my tapes with CDs and expanded my collection to about 300 at its peak. I enjoyed my CDs for years, often playing them when we had friends over for dinner and drinks.
Then came the mp3 revolution. I painstakingly ripped my entire CD collection to mp3 format, which took ages, but I kept the CDs for a while, much to my wife’s annoyance, before donating them to a local charity.
These days, I sometimes find music on YouTube, but I’ve never let go of my personal mp3 library. I have multiple copies on SSDs for safety and occasionally add new tracks, though my taste in music is mostly set. I’m not very interested in new releases, not because they’re bad, but they’re just not to my taste. I might make an exception for a movie or game soundtrack or if a younger friend recommends something.
When vinyl made its big comeback, it seemed bizarre to me. I couldn’t understand the appeal of going backward. But as it persisted, I began to get it. With so much content digital and cloud-stored, it can feel ephemeral. Streaming services can disappear or change, leaving you with nothing. Owning a physical object with your favorite music makes sense; it’s something tangible, something truly yours. Though I stick with my mp3s, I understand the allure of vinyl now.
There’s also something to be said about the quirks and flaws of older technology. The grain of film, the pops of a record player, or the imperfections of an analog guitar amp become endearing over time. When a perfect digital replacement comes along, it can feel “cold” to those accustomed to the imperfections. There’s an entire industry dedicated to reintroducing those analog quirks into the digital realm, recreating that familiar, comforting imperfection.
I kept the CDs for a while, much to my wife’s annoyance, before donating them to a local charity
I took them out of the jewel cases and put them into a binder, 4 CDs per page. It hasn’t exactly been a burden to carry it around for the last 20 years.
I couldn’t tell you how old my oldest MP3s are, except to say that a significant portion of my music library consists of MP3s I made myself with the Fraunhofer DOS command line encoder, and the Cassady & Green SoundJam software for MacOS. Of course, SoundJam is the software that Apple purchased and re-badged it “iTunes”.
