Real leftists understand the principles of harm reduction. Voting for Harris, as voting for Biden would have done, has the outcome of reducing harm compared to trump winning. Sure, there will still be harm, but it’ll be less, and that’s incredibly important. It’s basically the same foundation behind how we need to help drug addiction. Although Harris will likely cause even less harm than Biden.
Chances are that the “leftists” arguing for the purity test of Harris are people who aren’t truly at risk in this election. They won’t have their basic human rights torn apart if trump wins. They’re leftists in name only.
It honestly feels that they are more like Foreign Agents seeking to cause harm to other countries than real “Leftists”. I used to consider myself Far Left until I ran into rabid Marxist-Lenonist Leftists (see Lemmy.ML) and how ‘left’ I was was put into perspective.
Have you ever considered the fact that perhaps you are more left than they are? They will ban you from their communities for Horseshoe Theory should you mention this. But when it comes to authoritarian ideology as ml is. Though they’ll swear up and down it’s not despite every time it’s ever been implemented it’s always been authoritarian. Much the same as economic liberalism . But authoritarians are always authoritarian first. Anything resembling left or right is a passing thought at best.
Have you ever considered the fact that perhaps you are more left than they are?
Interesting concept actually. I haven’t thought about that before.
A person who is against the lies on .ml is indeed more leftist than most everyone on .ml.
They praise “socialist” countries that are actually state capitalist and producing hundreds of billionaires. It is very clear and overt that their priorities are nominally left authoritarianism over leftist economics.
On, the, nose. There’s a few I’m pretty sure aren’t American. Not a Russian or bot accusation. And another decent contingent from States and areas so safely blue that they’re just out of touch. And don’t care about the possible damage they do. Choosing to virtue signal over trying to appeal to other people.
This is an important point - it must be really nice to be in a position where neither you nor any of your loved ones would be at risk with another Trump presidency.
I mean, I mostly agree, but damn the ultra-left marginalized white non-binary anti-Harris idiots who don’t care that Trump would be worse for Gaza than literally any other person on the planet are real.
Oh and also the libertarians (always white, middle class ones) who think anyone who insists on strategically voting is a “brainwashed sheep”.
Not to mention the basic principle of democracy: political parties have a tendency to gravitate towards where the votes are.
The Democratic party isn’t a static thing. They will move further left if it gets them more votes. They move right if that gets them more votes. If the Democrats go further right, it’s not to spite leftists screaming on the internet. It’s because leftists aren’t voting and screaming on the internet is meaningless.
Leftists that aren’t voting are leftist that don’t actually want any leftist policies implemented. They just want to complain about policies not being implemented while doing nothing to make it happen. If they actually believe in the changes they say they want they’d be willing to vote in as many elections as necessary to see it happen. Over the course of decades id necessary. Voting in zero elections shows very dedication for what they claim to be important.
They will move further left if it gets them more votes. They move right if that gets them more votes.
Obama ran to Clinton’s left and was insanely popular. What way did the party move after his presidency?
Yeah, the purity ponies back in 2016 did a lot of damage to this country. Not sure if how many of them learned their lesson. I imagine some of the younger ones did. In any case, as it turns out, no revolution of the proletariat was accelerated by having the convicted felon in for a term. Things that actually happened instead: a rigged supreme court, more tax cuts for the elite and for corporations, and stealing of women’s rights.
I’m seeing a bit of a redux this time around with the #bidensoold and “Genocide Joe” stuff. Again, people seeking a perfect candidate when no such thing exists.
Don’t confuse leftists with Democrats, we are not the same thing. Democrats are right wing and support the oppressive status quo that keeps the marginalized, marginalized.
We will not support someone with her political record, shes a cop and ACAB
I get your rationale. But like I said in my comment, leftists and communists, as I assume you espouse to be, understand harm reduction. Voting for a third party or not voting only allows fascists to come to power. That is a fact. That’s what happened in Germany where the leftists/communists couldn’t agree on anything with the Catholic Democrats and that allowed the Nazis to come into power under the auspices of unity and competency. Just like the Republicans are pitching right now. You say that the status quo keeps the marginalize, marginalized. But you know what also keeps the marginalized, marginalized, and leads to much worse outcomes for the marginalized? Republicans winning.
Democrats aren’t perfect, hell, they fucking suck about some other core parts of communist goals. But when you refuse to vote or vote for a third party, you destroy the ability for us communists to continue fighting for our ideals instead of being rounded up and killed in camps.
My right to exist is on the line. Democrats will allow me to exist and continue to fight for a better future. Republicans will declare my existence pornographic, say that anyone who distributes or is a part of porn with be put in jail and called a sex offender, then will Institute the death penalty for sex offenders. I will literally be put in prison if Republicans win in November.
I want to keep existing and not be made illegal so I can continue to espouse and fight for my belief in the effectiveness of communists ideals. I know multiple communists who believe the same. And yes, we are communists, not democrats in disguise. We just also understand how politics works and that our lives are on the line.
I can’t convince you to vote for her. It just won’t happen. But this is why you’ll come up against fellow communists who will vote for her. I hope you can understand at least our reasoning for voting for her, even if you don’t agree with it.
I don’t get their rationale all. They’re either dumb as a toddler that can’t get their way so they hold their breath, or they’re malicious provacatours that want Trump to win for whatever reasons.
A communist that participates in right wing electoral politics is not a communist.
Who I support is irrelevant and how they’re polling is irrelevant. I vote my conscience, not who is most popular, it’s that popularity contest that gets people voting against their own interests. Because they’re only concerned about being on a winning team, not necessarily what that winning team is going to do to the marginalized and the working class.
Very often, I get the impression these “leftists” are disingenuous. I figure they’re Russians agents trying to cause instability, GOP astroturfers, or trolls who didn’t get care and compassion in the real world and need to see professional mental/emotional help.
And if not they might as well be because there is not a practical reason for any leftist to pick Trump over Kamala.
“Practical” is the important word in what you wrote. Some of these middle class purity test crew have no understanding about voting to prevent the greater harm.
Lots of people seem to be discounting the idea that perhaps they’ve just been dissilusioned with the electoral process after 30-something years of voting for the lesser evil.
It’s unrealistic to assume that that’s the case for every single person who falls into that category. People come from all different walks of life and believe a great number of things. I’m not saying that impossible for any of these people to be how you guess, just that you’re removing the possibility of people to exist that don’t fit into the way that you think.
Or all of the above.
Though there are always kids at universities wearing Che Guevara t-shirts that are into it for stylistic reasons. When they graduate, many of these types use that university degree to become the asshole bosses of the working class.
Most “leftists” I have conversations with have no idea how the political system of their own country works, let alone anything about geopolitics. Leftism is mostly an excuse to not learn anything about how things work (“because it’s all corrupt and needs to be replaced!”) and not to vote (“there’s no point because all of them are fascists!”).
It’s just radical slacktivism.
I’ve noticed one very important detail:
Nearly all the anti-Harris posts are saying the same things in slightly different ways. When challenged almost none of them respond.
Yeah, because we’ve let foreign nations litter our social networks with their infosec agents.
Nobody who is saying they’ll withold their vote for Harris was EVER going to vote D in the first place. But don’t ignore them; call them out on their shit.
Harris 2024. Fuck the republican traitor filth.
Well realistically, what’s to be gained from engaging with endless unrealistic purity tests? Of course we should always strive for the best we can. But we also need to come to terms with the fact that a lot of people can’t or won’t
It’s so frustrating that they’d rather block all progress towards their direction because it’s not an abrupt enough change. It’s also the reason that they will never get anything done, they are letting perfection be the enemy of any and all progress.
Edit: Even if you support some of their ideas, they will insult and ridicule you for not supporting absolutely everything they support. God forbid you want to start progressing towards a socialized democracy, it’s either radical revolution, or you’re a imperialist cuck. Rather than help people see their views they’d rather drive off any and all support. Honestly, they are the Alt-Left and are no better than the Alt-Right when it comes to discussion. You’ll be banned before you even get a response to any questions you may have.
Yep, it’s easy to be a purist when you are insulated or feel outside of a system. It’s a lot harder to participate, compromise, and more importantly show solidarity towards achieving a goal. That’s why so many choose to virtue signal, and absolve themselves of culpability.
That’s also how we knew they would immediately start to attack the next likely candidate.
You hit the nail on the head. The most frustrating part is in my circles I’ve seen this very behavior coming from the exact kinds of people who would be the worst impacted. In both cases with friends acting this way I asked what their plan is if p2025 comes to fruition, and they plan to “just leave”. Yeah that’s great that you have that luxury, but maybe pull your fucking head out of your ass and think about this critically for a second?
