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Screenshot of a Tumblr post by indigosfindings:
imagine if someone just like started addressing you as Dipshit, like youre just talking about your day & they say “no way Dipshit, that’s crazy.” and then maybe you say to them that you would prefer not to be addressed as Dipshit & their response is “well in my major metropolitan area ‘Dipshit’ is not considered an insult. im not saying i think youre stupid when i call you Dipshit, i call my mom dipshit all the time” so you say Thats cool but please dont call Me that. and then they just repeat that it’s something they say daily, they call all of their best friends & lovers dipshits & are called dipshit in return. “my grandma calls me dipshit at the dinner table, it doesnt mean anything.” so you say Yes i understand that your friends & grandma arent bothered by being called Dipshit but i am, & i would prefer if you didnt address me as that. and they say “it’s literally not possible for me to stop calling you dipshit, and it’s not reasonable for you to ask me to, dipshit.” anyway this post is about nothing in particular
one more report and I’m locking this whole mf thread
I understand this is a controversial topic but y’all need to behave your damn selves
The basics are:
- This is fundamentally a discussion about hurtful language, including slurs. I don’t mind them being mentioned / referenced (in fact I would argue it’s important to talk about them), but I’m not going to tolerate them being directed at people. This is y’alls final warning on that. I’ve removed some comments already but after this I’m just going to start handing out bans.
- I know there’s alternate interfaces for Lemmy, but on the basic version I’m familiar with, under each comment there is a button on the left end of the bar of buttons with three dots and a little arrow indicating additional options. If you press it, you will find that you have the option to “block” other users. This function will make it so that you no longer have to see anything they post or interact with them. This is a fantastic feature that I highly recommend utilizing in the event that someone says something you find upsetting that does not break the rules of this comm or instance.
Ok, but what is it about?
OP is a native of Albany, NY, where everybody refers to hamburgers as steamed hams, even when it comes to their patented family recipes. This is for when OP must meet with other people who are not familiar with the regional dialect, even those from Utica, and are preparing for an unforgettable luncheon.
And they call them steamed hams, despite the fact that they are obviously grilled?
Sometimes the technically proper name is just worse.
Like toasted cheese. Which is a weird south-central NY thing.
the way i interpreted it is that it’s about the “but dude/man/bro is gender neutral!” thing, when someone expresses that they don’t like being referred to using masculine terms
I do actually call my mom bro, but if like, a friend or coworker said “don’t call me that” I just wouldn’t do it.
Edit: this is tangential to the real point of the post, which is just to not call people things they don’t like.
Bro is harder to argue for sure.
And man, unless it’s more, “oh man, that’s rough” as an excalamatory rather than “good to see you man” is still gendered.
But dude has never been gendered. It was mostly used by guys towards guys, but the origins of that usage (rather than dude ranches or the derogatory term related to that) it was applied to everyone. Dudette came along later but was essentially created because the usage was male dominated, not because dude was gendered. It’s one of the rare gender neutral, inclusive slang terms. So much so that when dudette was thrown around, it got rejected as unnecessary, and was sometimes taken offensively. Same with dudina and dudess.
Mind you, the era where it was mostly an underground slang used in African American circles is murkier, since it was underground, less written at the time, and after it got “borrowed” by white kids lost its popularity there.
But when surfer culture picked it up, and it spread via movies, female surfers were called dude, and used it the same way as female surfers. They were just such a minority that the association didn’t stick in pop culture because what got seen was Spicoli, and the association with it as being used by guys about guys got absorbed as the primary usage.
There was no gender division in that origin, nor was there a need for it. There simply wasn’t a female specific alternative to dude.
Since it is still used inclusively far more than it isn’t, it’s usually better to assume the best rather than the worst. Someone duding someone in a casual and friendly way is unlikely to be using it as a gendered term. It’s more like buddy, or pal, or even mate than something like bro that started gendered and is still predominantly used that way.
I think that your intentions are good, but you’re missing the point. If someone doesn’t like what you’re calling them, just don’t call them that. I don’t think if someone was called dude and didn’t like it, that they would assume the worst, they would just ask you to please not call them that.
Yeah, dude doesn’t really bother me, but the others, as well as “guys,” do. Bro has a natural feminine version: “sis.” So does man: “woman” or “girl.” Likewise for guys: “gals” or “girls.” Making them gender neutral just causes confusion IMO, we should instead just use different terms w/o any gender association, such as “fellow,” “friend,” “home slice/skillet” (the 90s kid in me really wants that to come back), or the others you mentioned.
But yeah, dude is totally fine as a gender-neutral term due to surfer culture taking it over. But the others are a lot harder sell for me.
But yes, be excellent to each other. If your female friend wants to be called “bro,” go nuts.
I had assumed this was referring to the case years back of Elon Musk calling a British guy that was trying to help rescue some children from a submerged cave in the Philippines a “pedo”.
He was naturally sued about it but somehow avoided rightful punishment by claiming that he didn’t mean literally and it was a phrase used all the time in South Africa.
Twat waffle is a phrase we use all the time in my country. We use it whenever Elon is mentioned.
My first thought was “queer.” I know people who hate being called queer, but others still call them that anyway because they’re “taking back the word” or something like that
Generally maybe, but if someone says “don’t call me that,” the best thing to do is not call them that. Some people still have really negative experiences relating to the word. I know if people bullied me relentlessly in the past using the word, I wouldn’t want internet strangers calling me queer as well, even if they claim to mean well
I don’t really keep up with social movements, so my take might be outdated. Anyway, I always preferred to be called queen cause it was the first word I heard used to describe people like me, and it just felt more natural that trying to memorize all those complicated sub-labels people like to use.
I’m guessing it just depends on the person / area
This is the only one that I haven’t been able to drop from growing up in the early 2000s. I’m good about not saying it in public, but if it’s just the boys playing games or something all bets are off haha
It’s a very interesting take that really makes you look at things from a different perspective, but it kinda breaks down if you think about it. If this person really was saying it like a pronoun with no offense intended, and they were using it to refer to half of everyone they spoke to, and it was how other people referred to that person themself too, then it would quickly seem fine to me. If everyone is calling people dipshit all the time then it quickly becomes nothing to care about
Jesus fucking cunt, you cunt just drop cunt at every cunt you see or some cunts gonna get a cunt in their cunt about it
I disagree. If I don’t like being called dispshit, the thing to do is not call me dipshit. Your intent stops mattering the moment you know how I prefer to be referred to and actively decline to respect it.
At the risk of bringing up a controversial topic, this principle seems to be applied inconsistently. Eg. the people who say “men are trash” and then “if it doesn’t apply to you, it shouldn’t hurt you” would probably agree with your stance, but this is inconsistent.
They’re the same kind of person that told me that I wasn’t allowed to identify as queer because it’s a slur, and I can’t call myself a tomboy because it infantilizes women. Tons of people can’t walk their talk, and anybody who says hypocrisy is absent from their demographic has a bridge to sell you.
Depends. If you specifically have trauma from being called dipshit then it doesn’t.
Yeah, well… in this scenario where dipshit is an everyday word and used without malice, it’s difficult to see how someone could have trauma from that.
Yeah it’s weird, I very much agree you should respect what people want to be called (unless maybe you feel they really lost all right to be respected, but then it’s an active choice to insult) but the metaphor misses me so much it gives me the opposite reaction. If someone calls me some word that is normal to them but usually offensive to me I just think that’s interesting that their culture is different for that word.
Of course the non-asshole reaction here is to just say “ah sorry, it’s a normal non insulting way of calling people where I’m from, didn’t mean to offend you” and do your best to stop using it, but somehow this makes it harder for me to reach that conclusion.
How strong is this example?:
If someone calls me some word that is normal to them but usually offensive to me I just think that’s interesting that their culture is different for that word.
What comes to mind here, Australian-cunt?
That’s super interesting agreed. Like how the heck did they get on the C U Next Tuesday train?
…but it wasn’t used to slur us domestically, so we can be neutrally bemused.
(PS, I’m not super sensitive about language usually, just looking to draw the tightest possible parallel)
Yup. My coworkers like to swear, and I don’t, so I just don’t swear and they do. It works out pretty well. As long as I know there’s no malice in it, it really doesn’t bother me.
This isn’t even relevant. Swearing in general terms is not the same as referring directly to someone by a name they do not want to be referred to by.
It has the same offensive element, which is what I was getting at.
There’s a big difference between someone doing it on purpose and them doing it on accident/out of habit. As long as I know there’s no malice, I can deal with quite a bit.
Yes, it does break down in a hypothetical situation like the one you describe. But in reality and communication there always will be grey areas where shoe box thinking does not work out in a harmonic way. The acceptable outcome could be that person A simply dislikes person B for not respecting his/her wish and person B is okay with being disliked. Both agree to not enact policies based on their wishes. For me it seems in reality this often fails because of ambiguity intolerance.
I’m personally kind of reminded of how “faggot” and “dyke” are being “taken back” and used jokingly/sarcastically, but I still get really uncomfortable if someone uses them with me. They’ll say “oh I don’t mean it offensively!” But it’s not really up to you to decide what’s offending another person or not.
I once had someone tell me very very earnestly that the word Queer - a word I literally marched under in protest - was the worst most horrible slur ever, then turn around and use fruit.
Baby comm members need naptime methinks
Tbf, that word in it’s original definition literally means “Weird” or “Unnatural”. Like: “A circle in the triangle factory? How queer!”
As for all the other words and their association with LGBTQ I have no clue.
I’m fine with it as an adjective, not a noun, which I’m aware is a pretty fine distinction for a lot of people.
But I also use it exactly because of the reason you describe.
I don’t just want scrubbed white monogamous wealthy gay men like Peter Thiel and Neal Patrick Harris to be free, I want everyone to be free, particularly when their self expression is highly unusual.
There never needs to be a square liberation movement, but there will always be a need for queer liberation.
I grew up with those words being common and I hope they don’t come back in any form. They’re very damaging even to straight males. But I’m sure as long as there’s a counter culture they won’t go away.
Case in point, I’ve been getting really into Latin dance, taking group classes, taking private classes, etc. the people that I see dance that look amazing are having a lot of fun with the dance and the music, the body movements, everything. When I try to move a certain way with my hips there’s this fucking voice in my head that’s snickering saying “gay” and if I can get out of my own fucking head and just feel the music, feel myself and connect with who I’m dancing with I have a great time and I get a lot of compliments. I hate that even when I know it’s wrong and even completely illogical the fear of being perceived as feminine or weak is something that I have to struggle with on a personal level.
Yeah, it’s like people say “Please don’t call me that,” and instead the person who called them that hears “You did something wrong for calling me that,” and they get defensive. It’s one of those things that, once you notice, you’ll see it everywhere. Not just about nicknames. It could be anything. It’s like no matter what you say in response they just view it like you’re angry or saying they’re a bad person. “I know you didn’t mean anything by it, but I don’t like it and would prefer that you didn’t.” Nope. Some folks just can’t comprehend it. “I know other people are okay with it. I’m not saying you should stop calling them that.” Nope! Their ego is now in defense mode lol.
I have one friend who uses the R word and insists it’s to reclaim the term, but they almost exclusively use it in a self-degrading manner. They seem to be the only one in their circle that uses the word, and they’ve had lively arguments over whether or not it’s a word to reclaim. I’ve stayed out of it but when the only person I’ve encountered who says they’re trying to reclaim a slur seems to be using it to degrade themselves, I question if it’s worth even trying to reclaim. It’s just a word, let it be entirely forgotten to the sands of time like “forsooth” and any other words I don’t know because they’ve left virtually all people’s lexicons
Generally being nice to other people is a good thing. It makes the world a nicer place for everyone. And in cases like this, it seems like it is pretty easy to be nice - just don’t call that person ‘dipshit’. That just seems like a very low-cost way to show the person that you respect them.
