feddit.org

-2 points

2 months ago

Force, coercion, manipulation maybe. Pick whichever word is right for you. If your position is that there is only one valid perspective for everyone in this country, then you are part of the problem.

You will never browbeat people into joining your position, but you keep trying and call it a good effort all you want.

If you really wanted to change third party or undecided voters opinions, I’d recommend a different approach.

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Red_October@lemmy.world

1 point

2 months ago

I notice you left out “Persuasion.” If you think the presentation of facts regarding the basic function of our voting system is somehow force, coercion, or manipulation, then I can see why you would want to do your part to get Trump elected, and you’re a lost cause.

Either Trump or Harris are going to win the election. No third party candidate has any serious chance of winning, and nobody who actually understands how the election works thinks they do. You are ALLOWED to vote third party if you want to (see how nobody is FORCING you not to?) but doing so is just another vote the real contenders don’t have to beat. If you’re more left leaning, that means it’s a vote Harris would have had that Trump doesn’t have to beat.

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0 points

2 months ago

The huge mistake you make in the freedom to vote is that people are free to vote for WHATEVER REASONS THEY WANT TO.

No matter how many times you say it, if I vote for the green party, I am not voting for the republican party.

I’m telling you this because your rhetoric is doing the opposite of what you think it is. Putting third party voters on the defensive, and again avoiding any conversation about why they would vote third party in the first place, is an awful way to change someone’s mind.

Calling people Russian shills or saying they don’t care what happens to the country doesnt help either.

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Red_October@lemmy.world

1 point

2 months ago

I haven’t called anyone a Russian Shill, sounds like a guilty conscience. And again, nobody is forcing you to vote in any particular way, you absolutely CAN vote however you want, for whatever reason you want, but there are consequences. You could vote for Jill Stein, you could vote for your neighbor’s cat. Both have the same chances of winning the election, and both are another vote Trump doesn’t have to worry about overcoming in his effort to win. No matter how hard third parties try, none of them will ever, ever get more votes in a presidential election than the big two, and the more people you sway to your side, the fewer votes the main candidate you otherwise most agree with will get. Welcome to First Past the Post voting, nobody likes it but it’s the system we have. If you want third party candidates to stand a shred of a chance, you have to change the system of voting, which would be ideal.

To be clear, I completely understand WHY someone would want to vote third party. The thing is, that literally doesn’t matter. Only the result matters. Like you said, people can vote how they want for whatever reason they want, but they still only get one vote. Either your vote will contribute to Trump not winning, or it won’t. Nobody said your third party vote is a vote for Republicans, but it’s not making their barrier to victory any more difficult, they’re already guaranteed to beat any third party opponent as it is.

If you don’t care about that, and you just really really want to stage your protest and hope that Mr. Worst Case Scenario still loses, that’s on you.

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0 points

2 months ago

Okay so how about this, you tell me when in allowed to vote for the candidate I like best. Hows that? This elections too close right? How about next one? Do I get to vote how I want then? Or will democracy be at stake yet again, like it always is.

Maybe if you spent as much time trying to convince people its a good thing to vote and that they can vote however they’d like to instead of attempting to discourage third party voters from voting at all, you’d actually be helping the democrats win.

Remind me which group is larger, americans who don’t vote or green party members? Maybe your focus is in the wrong place, and maybe the democrats are only throwing the green party under the bus so they don’t have to disagree with green party policies that would be wildly popular with the voting public.

The republicans are psychopaths but the democrats are manipulative at best most of the time. Some like it but it turns others off of the party too.

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Red_October@lemmy.world

1 point

2 months ago

I’m honestly starting to wonder if you’re just not a native English speaker and this is purely a breakdown in communication, so I’m going to try to keep this as simple as I can. Please tell me if you just don’t understand any of these points.

You are allowed to vote for whoever you want. Nobody is going to FORCE you to vote one way or another.

Attempting to persuade you to vote in a particular way, without threats of retaliation for refusing to do so, is not force.

Having to face the consequences of the result of the election is not force.

I am able to care about more than one thing. Being a part of this conversation doesn’t mean that I am not also intent on convincing more people to vote. You don’t take up much of my time, interest, or attention, I can do other things too.

Third party voters are already voters. They are already going to vote, it is only a question of who they will vote for.

Green Party voters have more in common with Democrats than they do with Republicans. That means the Green Party is more likely to attract Democrat voters than they are to attract Republican voters. This is why a bigger Green Party vote turnout means more people who would have otherwise voted Democrat, didn’t. That is what people call the Spoiler effect when talking about the Green Party, and third parties in general. While the Green Party is all but completely incapable of actually winning an election, it pulls more votes away from Democrats than it does Republicans, thus a more successful Green Party campaign means a more likely Republican victory. This is why Ranked Choice voting would allow Third Parties a chance to win, people could vote for them without making their most hated choice more likely to win.

Again, you are ALLOWED to vote for whoever you want. If you’re going to vote third party, you are wasting your time, but you are allowed. If you want Third Party candidates to have any chance of ever winning, we need to change away from the First Past the Post voting system. You could also try campaigning to get your positions and ideas out into the public consciousness before the General Election, rather than just surfacing in time to swing results toward Republicans.

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-1 points

2 months ago

Sure I follow you but its based on hopes and wishes. You are assuming a green party vote would go to a democrat otherwise. Thats another mistake. Again, this isnt how voting works.

I understand that you think voting a certain way really means something else ultimately, but I’m telling you that you don’t get to tell people what their vote means. You barely know what your own vote will mean ultimately much less anyone else’s.

The fact is you have no idea what will happen, but then try to predict it anyways. But its not just a prediction because you go even further. You can disagree with me all you want but its a difference in perspective and neither of us is “wrong” truly. We wont know until the election.

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