The very idea of a “spoiler” is a tool used by those clinging to the duopoly to scare people into submission, to keep us from voting our conscience.
You are correct that I don’t buy into that narrative, but in this community, where the term is tossed around like a weapon, I use the vernacular to communicate effectively.
Jill Stein isn’t a spoiler—she’s a voice for the people, challenging a corrupt system that fears true democracy. And she has my vote.
TLDR: It was an event for Russia Today an effective arm of the Russian government which was very supportive of Steins candidacy because of her potential as a spoiler and Putin only gave a speech to the group didn’t strategize with her personally (at that juncture).
How is this less damning
The very idea of a “spoiler” is a tool used by those clinging to the duopoly to scare people into submission, to keep us from voting our conscience.
No, it’s a tool that exists in some flawed voting systems, recognized by political scientists and used by bad actors.
You are correct that I don’t buy into that narrative, but in this community, where the term is tossed around like a weapon, I use the vernacular to communicate effectively.
Why I distrust you, in particular, is that you only recognize the spoiler vernacular, and only post these articles, when they’re about “spoilers for the Trump campaign.” You never do the same for Democrats.
Jill Stein isn’t a spoiler—she’s a voice for the people, challenging a corrupt system that fears true democracy.
We disagree. She’s a spoiler, except unlike the person in the article you posted, she doesn’t have the moral fortitude to admit it. Her position on Ukraine makes her a complete non-starter for me; even if we did have approval or ranked choice voting, she’d wouldn’t get any vote from me. The Greens need to dump her idiot ass.
Why I distrust you, in particular, is that you only recognize the spoiler vernacular, and only post these articles, when they’re about “spoilers for the Trump campaign.” You never do the same for Democrats.
I’m not sure why that makes you so angry. Remember when everyone used to accuse me of only posting Green Party stuff to “spoil” the election and help Trump win? It was like they thought my whole mission was to help Trump win! Actually, people still accuse me of that! Lmao!
But I also post other party news, and you are mad because I used different wording?! lol
Bruh, I post news about third parties.
I’m focused on challenging the entire duopoly, not just one side of it.
If you’ve only seen me call out one party, that’s on you, but my goal is to shine a light on the hypocrisy and corruption of both Democrats AND Republicans.
Both sides are terrified of true alternatives, and that’s exactly why third parties need our support.
I’m not sure why that makes you so angry.
I’m not at all angry. Like you, I call out bullshit when I see it.
Remember when everyone used to accuse me of only posting Green Party stuff to “spoil” the election and help Trump win?
Dude. That’s not a “remember when” thing - that’s a today thing.
It was like they thought my whole mission was to help Trump win!
That’s what spoilers do: they siphon votes from one party. Sometimes the leaders are puppets, sometimes they’re aware of what they’re doing but don’t care; I don’t know which I think it’s worse, but I have a hard time believing that any national level party leader is ignorant of their impact on US elections, for which I hold them culpable.
Actually, people still accuse me of that!
K, now you’re being ironic. Because that’s me. I’m the one who consistently responds to your posts. I have a small hope that someone who might be teetering on voting Green will give a hard think, look at history, and change their minds.
And, look: I want people to be able to vote for other parties. I’ve voted Green before. But first we have to fix the election system in the US to reduce the Spoiler Effect, as we’re doing at the state level with initiatives like the Minnesota RCV effort. Until we get there, though, voting for a third party is only supporting the greater of two evils - whichever party you don’t want to win. Remember, the last time any third party won aUS presidential election was 1861.
my goal is to shine a light on the hypocrisy and corruption of both Democrats AND Republicans.
You don’t, though; you explicitly and consistently advocate for Jill Stein. If I gathered a list of all your posts criticizing Biden, Kamala, and Trump, what do you think the pie chart would look like?
Both sides are terrified of true alternatives,
This is absolutely true, and it’s why they oppose Ranked Choice and Approval Voting (the two most popular alternative voting efforts in the US) initiatives.
and that’s exactly why third parties need our support.
Efforts to replace FPTP need our support. Third parties for the Presidency do not. Third parties in Congress, I’m all for; we could do with more pressure to build coalitions in the legislative branch.
she’d wouldn’t get any vote from me
And I totally support and respect your right to think that and vote for who you want to. As I’m sure you support and respect my right to vote for who I want to. Right?
I’m not sure “respect” is the word I’d chose, but “support,” sure. As I’ve said before, you have the right to write in “Bozo the Clown” for president; it’d have as much impact, but it’s your vote.
However, I will not stop trying to convince people to not make the mistake I made in 2000. I hated Tipper Gore because of her involvement in the founding of the PMRC, and didn’t want her anywhere near the White House. So I voted Green Party. I take resposibility that my vote, which would otherwise have gone to Gore (if I’d been smarter) and contributed to the election of Bush Jr. and consequently the invasion of Iraq (I believe Afghanistan was inevitable after 9/11, but Iraq was opportunistic Jingoism). My “protest” vote, among a wave of other protest votes, contributed to a needless war and very likely led to politics and policies that ultimately resulted in the Trump Presidency.
Maybe you’re able to divorce yourself from responsibility, and blame other people for your actions; if you vote for Stein and Trump wins, you’ll blame Democrats - you’ve said as much elsewhere. That’s an attitude I have no respect for. Take responsibility for the consequences of your own actions, and if the greater of two evils wins, at least have the ethical fortitude to admit you helped it happen through your vote.
I don’t say all of this for you, but for any other person considering a protest votes: please look back at the 2000 election and the measured analysis of the impact of spoiler parties and the subsequent ripple effects which have led to today.
As your yourself, I’m still not convinced you’re not an agent saboteur; your posts consistently target Democrats more than Republicans, and if you were a true Green Party activist, you’d be attacking Trump and Republicans more than any Democrat. The Democratic party plank aligns far more with the Green party than does the Republican party’s; the current conservative agenda is supposedly completely counter to the Green party’s, and yet Jill Stein and her supporters target Kamala more than Donald because that’s where they know they can siphon votes. And this is the very definition of a spoiler in a FPTP election system.
What has Jill Stein ever done for the people? Continually running and losing isn’t a public service. She’s absolutely worthless and there is a reasonable expectation that this will be so for the rest of her life.
Continually running and losing isn’t a public service.
Then you have nothing to fear or be angry about. I mean, she doesn’t do anything, right?
She can effect the outcome of the election even if she can’t win it this should be obvious.
