Progressive film-maker says he’s more optimistic than he’s ever been since Trump announced first run eight years ago

You are viewing a single thread.
View all comments View context
4 points

What’s the difference? Enlighten me!

permalink
report
parent
reply
7 points

Planets in general must be spherical objects (which excludes asteroids as they are too small to form spheres) that orbit a star (which excludes moons which orbit planets). The problem with this definition is it becomes hairy quickly. Buried in the asteroid belt is a large asteroid that meets that definition: Ceres. Ceres is round. It orbits the Sun. By that definition, it qualifies as a planet. Likewise, Pluto has several counterparts in its area of space that are round and orbit the Sun: Haumea, Makemake, and Eris come to mind. Remember that old saying “My very educated mother just served us nine pizzas”? Well, they lampshaded a big problem with that definition with the new pneumonic: “My very educated mother can’t (Ceres) just serve us nine pizzas; Hundreds may eat.”

Astronomers, seeing the problem with that definition, decided we needed to exclude all these new worlds. This would unfortunately exclude Pluto, but many astronomers were thinking that Pluto should have never made the cut in the first place. Pluto is weird. Unlike every other major planet in the Solar System, Pluto orbits outside the ecliptic. Its orbit doesn’t align with the other planets, and for parts of Pluto’s year, it’s closer to the sun than Neptune. While Neptune’s and Pluto’s orbits don’t intersect (if they did, Neptune would either fling Pluto out of the solar system or capture it, and we think Neptune has already captured another Pluto-like object in the form of Triton), Pluto does cross the sphere at Neptune’s distance from the sun and orbits inside Neptune’s distance for part of its orbit. And its orbit and characteristics matched other so-called Trans-Neptunian Objects pretty darn closely, and we’d already found something out there heavier than Pluto in similar situations (Eris). Any definition that includes Pluto would include potentially dozens or even HUNDREDS of other TNOs, and couldn’t exclude Ceres.

So they made a definition for major planets which would cover the classical planets plus Uranus and Neptune. It wasn’t enough that you be spherical. You ALSO had to have cleared your orbital. This covers the Major Eight clearly, while excluding a population of tiny worlds that could grow gargantuan if we allowed them to. While Pluto is still a planet, it’s no longer a major planet like the classical 5 plus Uranus and Neptune. And excluding it makes it easier for us to keep up with.

But don’t expect this is settled! We have some indications that there may be something out in the Outer Solar System that might set the debate again. There are several Kuiper Belt Objects that have orbits that suggest there’s something out there ‘shepparding’ them and forcing them to assume set orbits that they’d not be in otherwise. Simulations suggest the possibility of a super-Earth or mini-Neptune (things not found in our Solar System but observed in others) orbiting the sun in a distant orbit. This silent, cold traveller would have a mass of between 5 and 10 Earth masses, and would be moving so slowly that it can’t possibly clear its orbit like Earth or Jupiter can. Still, something between Earth’s and Uranus’s mass should probably be a bit more special than Pluto, so I suspect the definition will change again when and if we find this hypothetical large body in the outer solar system.

permalink
report
parent
reply
6 points
  • Orbits a star
  • Is big enough to become a spheroid
  • Big enough to clear any other objects of similar size from its orbit

Pluto fails the last test. That’s why it’s a dwarf planet along with Eris, Haumea, Makemake, and Ceres, among many other possible ones

permalink
report
parent
reply
2 points
*

I’m willing to continue.

When were these tests instituted? Was it the IAU?

Is the last test referencing a specific size?

Does Pluto have anything else in it’s orbit? The other objects of similar size… What would cause a “planet” to clear it vs. a non-planet?

For example, suddenly there is another Saturn-sized object in Saturn’s orbit. What guarantee is there that Saturn would clear it? Might it not clear Saturn??? After all, it’s of similar size. Does this mean Saturn is not a planet?

Real questions.

permalink
report
parent
reply
-1 points
*

Yes, this was at the IAU.

But you’re clearly here for an argument so nothing I say will convince you. Go talk to them about it if you have a problem.

permalink
report
parent
reply

politics

!politics@lemmy.world

Create post

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

  1. Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.

Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.

Example:

  1. Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
  2. Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
  3. No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to “Mom! He’s bugging me!” and “I’m not touching you!” Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
  4. Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
  5. No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That’s all the rules!

Civic Links

Register To Vote

Citizenship Resource Center

Congressional Awards Program

Federal Government Agencies

Library of Congress Legislative Resources

The White House

U.S. House of Representatives

U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

News

World News

Business News

Political Discussion

Ask Politics

Military News

Global Politics

Moderate Politics

Progressive Politics

UK Politics

Canadian Politics

Australian Politics

New Zealand Politics

Community stats

  • 15K

    Monthly active users

  • 11K

    Posts

  • 187K

    Comments