Why is that? Do dems simply have less voter engagement or is this a split on age lines? Really interesting statistics though!
Gerrymandering, voter ID, challenging voter registrations, disenfranchising felons, opposing mail-in voting, anonymous mailers threatening to arrest voters, closing polling stations in Democratic-leaning areas, challenging voters at the polls to gridlock the polling places, making the handing out of water to people waiting to vote (in red states - where it’s hot) illegal.
All the well-known cheating tactics of republiQans. Others are less well known. That’s one of the problems.
There is no shittier candidate than Trump. The there is MTG, Gaetz, Boebert, and so many others. The shittiest candidates I have ever seen.
Democracy is a responsibility, not a romance. I want Bernie, but I’m voting, donating, and volunteering for Biden or (please) whoever the Democratic Nominee is. The point is to continually improve things…
This cannot be emphasized enough.
Even AOC was not their choice, she did it herself and beat the Dem choice.
Republicans voters are much better at voting for their Handmaiden’s Tale candidates. Meanwhile, Democrats are told that anyone to the left of Eisenhower “isn’t electable” so we just have to swallow right-wingers like Biden and Hillary.
EDIT: I’m saying that Republican voters don’t care who’s “electable,” so they get what they want. We should try the same.
I think this chart, which I hope shows up, kind of gets to the point. Both reds pretty much ALWAYS vote. The conservative blues also always vote. That pretty much just leaves the progressive blues that need to be convinced to show up… But if they do show up, they vote blue.
Also notice that even if the Biden’s of the party could in fact get every centrist Republican to switch over and vote for them (and the biggest swing they actually achieved in these years was only a few percent) it still wouldn’t compare to the votes they’d get if they’d just embrace progressives and let the conservatives go.
That pretty much just leaves the progressive blues that need to be convinced to show up… But if they do show up, they vote blue.
not running shitty candidates with thoroughly fucked up voting/support history would be a great way to convince progressives to show up; the democrats had that with bernie and denied him 2x, so it doesn’t seem realistic that the democrats would ever change.
and it turns into a chicken and egg problem because democrats needs progressives to show up; but progressives won’t show up because democrats keep punching left.
Don’t really matter when only one side picks the popular one that moves their masses.
Wish I could upvote more than once.
Is advocating for the Democratic Party allowed on this comm?
Should be allowed anywhere people acknowledge reality lol. The number of people on Lemmy who think that they’re gonna magically change the world by complaining loudly on a tiny Internet forum and labeling literally everyone that disagrees with them for any reason a genocide supporter is utterly astounding…and more than a little ironic given how many of them are out here fangirling over Mao and Stalin.
Like, holy fuck dude. The far left echo chamber here is so far off in la-la-land it makes the people I see ranting in my Facebook feed seem well-informed by comparison. You guys literally have no idea how anything gets done in the real world lol.
Keep it up with this “all or nothing” mentality, and you’re gonna get nothing every single time.
I’m voting blue, and you should too
But if it’s a competition for engagement, why did we have to go with the least engaging candidate possible?
Because the system isn’t fixed yet.
Unfortunately, we have to engage in order to fix it. It won’t just fix itself so that we can participate with a clean ego conscience.
So much this. This is a shitty game, but the only way to fix the game, is to play. Keep voting blue to beat the fascist reds, and in primaries, vote with your heart. A strong voter turnout for both will make the red party irrelevant until they move more to the center, while also pushing blue more left.
A union doesn’t get better treatment by continuing to work the machines that mangle them.
I dont have much of a better answer but I’m getting tired of hearing this.
Okay… But let’s walk it out… Say turn out is good enough to beat Trump this time… Biden gets in again… What’s the next step? How do we then get him and the Dems to fix the system? Probably not even that hard… Ranked choice, end dark money, end gerrymandering… The rest will likely sort itself out… So what? Do we call our elected reps and say, okay, this time I really mean it, you fix this dumpster fire or else… Else what?
(Just to keep this from getting derailed… I’m voting for Biden and so should everyone, especially in the swing states.)
But I’ve heard this song before… Over and over… Just vote like you’re told to this time, and then we’ll fix the system later… And like clockwork we’re right back here every 4 years… And god forbid anyone ever point out that we did this exact same dance last time, and we got them in, and shocker of all shockers, they didn’t fucking fix anything about the system. Shit, they didn’t even try.
So show me the Democrat’s plan to fix the system. Or I guess it is already “fixed”… How are they going to unfuck it?
What’s the next step?
The republicans come up with the next boogeyman and the democrats jam some new unpopular shill down our throat “or else we lose democracy” and so on until people stop putting up with it because nothing ever gets better and we do actually lose democracy.
Step one is that people need to show up for more than just presidential elections. The only way to move left at a national level is to show the establishment that progressive candidates are winning in local and state races and it’s more than just a couple of them here or there. Get more progressives in the kind of offices that can set them up to be governors and senators - those are the people who generally end up as president. There’s no overnight solution, which is what a lot of people seem to expect.
Buuuut voter turnout in non-presidential election years sucks, and it’s even worse outside of midterms. I don’t know how to solve that part. I’ve voted in every single election I could since I turned 18, and I don’t understand the complete lack of engagement. I know how to solve the things that prevent willing voters from doing it, but I don’t know how we fix apathy.
We already have a roadmap for this, thanks to the fascists. The way they took over the Republican party 15 years ago was by aggressively getting involved in the primary process. Once establishment neoliberal Dems start losing their primaries, the rest will get the hint real quick.
(Just to keep this from getting derailed… I’m voting for Biden and so should everyone, especially in the swing states.)
But I’ve heard this song before… Over and over… Just vote like you’re told to this time, and then we’ll fix the system later… And like clockwork we’re right back here every 4 years… And god forbid anyone ever point out that we did this exact same dance last time, and we got them in, and shocker of all shockers, they didn’t fucking fix anything about the system. Shit, they didn’t even try.
So show me the Democrat’s plan to fix the system. Or I guess it is already “fixed”… How are they going to unfuck it?
you keep giving them what they want from you so they have no reason to bother fixing it
You don’t get the Dems to fix the system, that’s not the point. They’re not a solution, they’re one step. The problem is we’ve been leaving it to that one step and just magically expecting things to get fixed for us.
Showing up helps, but it’s only the first step. And you have to show up for everything. Not just once every four years, or even every two. You need to show up for every vote. Down to local dog-catcher. Because that change trickles up.
I’m not a strategist, I don’t have all the answers… but I know giving up cause you haven’t seen the change you wanted through minimum effort is fucking stupid. It’s hard. No one said it wouldn’t be. But that’s no reason to decide it’s not worth the effort.
What’s the next step?
It’s not salvageable on the national level. It’s only going to happen with organization outside of the DNC. Unions, community organizations, and activist groups for boycotts and strikes with a clearly defined political objective.
How do we then get him and the Dems to fix the system?
First step is getting Republicans to stop being literal fascists. And that means that they have to lose so many times in a row that they have to rethink the whole party strategy to try getting elected again.
Then, once republicans go back to being just corporate shills, Dems will have to actually push left because the “we’re not Satan” strategy won’t work anymore.
If we’re expecting democrats to fix our broken, two party system, we’re going to be waiting a long time. The left is going to have to work hard and do it ourselves. Democrats are enslaved in a broken system they helped create.
If you’re expecting anyone to fix a system for you while you sit on your ass, you’re in for a world of disappointment.
This isn’t a fix, it’s one step. You need to do a hell of a lot more than show up once or twice a year to get things fixed. And it takes more than just you. That’s what the whole post is about. People don’t show up because they feel it’s impossible to change.
In no small part because of doom-sayers like yourself who constantly keep saying that “if you do it that way you’re bound to fail, so don’t even try”.
Democrats are a stop-gap. I’m not saying they’re not. But if you remove that stop gap the entire system floods. If you have a better way to staunch the flow, I’d love to hear it. But all I hear from your type is “But I put in the bare minimum possible effort and it didn’t change things, so I’m going to stop trying at all”.
I have participated for over two decades in all ways possible, I can’t support any part of this system with a good conscience anymore. We can do something better, the US constitution and neoliberal capitalism isn’t the ultimate attainment of human progress.
Because we did the same thing in 2016, and no one learned anything from those mistakes.
My question still is why does it feel like the democratic party continues to try to mostly target ‘undecided’ voters. Which I’m still not convinced actually exist in any significant numbers. But I know tons and tons and tons of theoretically democrat voters that just don’t bother to actually vote.
Feels like 80% of the messaging is aimed at somehow flipping a red voter blue instead of actually capitalizing on the blue voters they actually have.
Whereas all I see Republicans do is advertise to their own base. I basically never see them legitimately try to flip a blue voter. They seem to correctly recognize that’s a lost cause, so they spend most of their effort on energizing their voter base.
Because it’s not just a popularity contest. I mean, it is, but you also need money to advertise yourself to an entire country.
Advertising is expensive when you have to pay for it, instead of doing stupid or evil stuff all the time like certain famous Republicans.
So, who has money, and how do you convince them to give you money? This is where the intersection between who we want and who we get lies.