Hello! So two things:
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I would like to have a discussion about the UHC CEO killing and if it is at all any different than the ~45 murders a day in the USA…(other than the obvious “he was rich” one). -Typical Christmas family get together brought this up as a topic and was curious about the different perspectives. Argument made by others was “this sets a bad precedent”, and the response was “how is this any different than someone getting murdered for literally any reason”. Hate, lust, money, your car…whatever the motivation, how is this any different?
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Is there a better location to post said discussion topic?
I mostly lurk Lemmy, so not really sure how to find the correct communities for said topic.
Thanks!
- The difference is Brian Thompson deserved it. Brain Thompson was a legitimately evil person who - in a system where consequences can happen to the rich - would have been severely punished and/or executed for the harm he has done.
And therein lies the problem. We are not in a system where consequences can happen to the rich. People like Brian Thompson can abuse the public at large for his own gain. They’ve purchased congress, they have purchased the white house, they have purchased the courts, they have purchased the police.
All legal recourse has been denied to the average citizen. Voting, writing congressmen, petitioning, picketing, protesting…these things have no effect on public policy or corporate behavior. The rich own the government, the government will do what the rich people want it to do. They’ll never arrest a rich person for, say, torturing millions of people.
The soap box fails, the ballot box fails, what’s left is the ammo box. The men who wrote our founding documents fought a grape shot, musket ball and bayonet war for the chance to write them; the idea that - when all else fails - things sometimes have to get fucking ugly was on their minds. Hence the constitutional right to bear arms in this country, with the implication being sometimes you’ve got to walk up to a rich and powerful person who is doing a lot of harm and catastrophically damage his vital organs.
I’ll leave this topic with this: I’ve seen topics of discussion here on Lemmy that read something like “You say marriages used to last before no-fault divorce? Naw, it’s just women used to murder their husbands a lot more.” And the comments section of these were nothing but cheers and applause. The overall Lemmy community is perfectly fine with that. A person in a lower position of power and an intolerable position takes the opportunity to end the life of a person in higher power over them to escape that intolerable position. It’s okay when a wife kills her husband because he’s beating her, right Lemmy? So it must also be okay when an ordinary citizen kills an oligarch because the oligarch has been denying them necessary healthcare. “He was beating me so I killed him.” “He was keeping me from getting treatment, so I killed him.” The difference I see is there are people who aren’t saying “You go girl” to the second one.
- Probably but whatever.
The killing of Brian Thompson was cold blooded murder and should not be celebrated. No one is saying we should celebrate any other average person who gets gunned down like that.
This response is so boot-lickingly simplistic and lacking in context and nuance. I wish I could get to live in the world where this blanket statement just made everything okay again. It’s almost as if you actually have no reasonable counter to the points raised by the commentor.
The only way it is “worse” (or better) than typical, everyday violence was the motivation. It wasn’t just someone getting mad and acting in the heat of the moment. It was someone getting mad who wanted to send a message. There was a legitimate, culturally relevant reason Brian Thompson was killed, and it could very well lead to other killings for the same reason unless the status quo sees significant changes.
Would you kill a mass muderer? Because that’s what an insurance CEO is. I’d argue the existenc3 of any millionaire CEO begets mass social murder
Except that’s false because he did not murder anyone (that we know of). Be angry at the system and the government allowing it to exist not the ones using it as intended. Much of what I see here is jealousy of millionaires and virtue signalling instead of people truly suggesting change. Anyone here can start any business, go start a fair insurance business, no one’s preventing you, and that will actually help the issue instead of crying online
There are actually very high barriers to entry in the insurance and health care markets (which in the USA are tightly intertwined).
The health insurance industry doesn’t want there to be fair alternatives because then everyone would buy that instead. This is an oligarchy, not a democracy.
“Go start a fair insurance business”
I cannot fathom how you can believe what you are writing.
I can only say one thing: be the change you want to see. Nothing is going to change if nobody bothers doing anything
“What is so much worse than vigilante violence without accountability is systemic violence without accountability. The most prolific vigilante in the world, hell the most prolific serial killer in the world, could not kill as many people per day as the CEO of United Healthcare is responsible for.”
via Tumblr
They really messed up when the whole squad got together for that photo op. That’s a powerful image.
People say violence is never an option and that you should use your words. Those people are lying violence is ALWAYS and option (not always the best) this violent act of murder has done more towards equallity of healthcare for americans than thousands of people speaking could have hoped to achieve.
The french did not get liberty by asking the lords, the rich, and the king for rights. They took their liberty by forcfully exercising violence to remove the heads of the ellite.
Is murder inherently wrong? I would argue no (its ok to murder hitler etc) so where do we draw the line on accepted murder? By applying a utilitarian perspective of least harm then it could be argued that the murder of this ceo and potentially others is mortally required.
Remeber the best definition of a country is the group who holds a monopoly power for a specific area. Violence is the only message that has reliably worked throughout history.
Ps. I do not support or encourage anyone in enacting violence upon anyone else.
this violent act of murder has done more towards equallity of healthcare for americans than thousands of people speaking could have hoped to achieve.
What exactly did it do to help with the equality situation? It’s delusional to think UHC hasn’t simply replaced its CEO and increased security. Business as usual.
It has united the people in two ways.
- Yes, we all are suffering in the same ways and for the same reasons (oppression by the ruling class).
- Here we collectively see a solution.
The killing of this CEO did very little directly. But indirectly it unified the people, and that is a big big thing.
I think the issue I’ve been grappling with is, where do we draw the line as to what is an ‘acceptable’ murder? Like what if another Healthcare CEO is killed, but they’re violently knifed to death? Are we still celebrating then? What if they’re shot, but raped first? Are we still printing t-shirts? What if they’re shot, but so is their family? What if innocent passers by also get caught in the cross fire? Do we still cheer for them? What level of mental gymnastics do we have to do to justify something as ‘justice’ vs just plain old ‘murder?’ Where does this take us? Where does that reasoning end?
Knifed to death is still good. The others are two-parters and should generally be avoided if possible.
Its a classic conundrum and one you have to decide for yourself based on your own morals. I tend to take a ends justify means approach to things but that has been critiqued extensively by people far smarter than I.
These ceos are responsible for killing thousands of people and will kill thousands more in the future. The maths would argue that any action that reduces harm in the future is justified. That then changes ur question into one of what do u value more? Thousands of people dying preventable deaths due to corporate greed or another healthcare ceo being violently stabbed to death after being raped and their family shot and innocent bystanders getting shot?
There is no right answer. All u can do is decide for yourself in a manner u believe is congruent with ur personal morality.
