It’s so wild to me that the US still has this fascist ahh ritual. Nobody told them that the godless Soviet Union fell already?
It’s ok the pledge was written by a communist, but a home grown American communist
What no this is more of a “American communism is a longstanding tradition and it’s foolishness to brush us off as purely a capitalistic nation.”
Lol child indoctrination
I bet that kid even gets dragged to church on Sundays
So tame tho. See my other comment…
We had not only national anthems, but a whole-ass flag raising ceremony weekly. And there’s even a “Little Red Scarf” ceremony once a year.
When I first came to the US, I just thought the pledge was a normal thing. But according to some Europeans on the internet, its apparantly just… not a thing in their country?
Not only is not a thing, but the rest of the world views it as distinctly odd. Performative patriotism looks a bit creepy from the outside. I guess you have to be born into it, but we all know that family who does something and remains unaware just how it looks?
Even being born into it, it feels weird. I’ll stand politely when the national anthem is played at a sporting event, because that feels only slightly odd. But the pledge of allegiance always gave me straight cult vibes, no thanks.
I’ve seen multiple groups of Australians treat their national anthem with mild irreverence, which feels so much healthier.
There’s a lot that I would say that are just crazy to me when they become inherent by definition indoctrination.
Circumcision and childhood baptism also fall into those categories for me. Want to devote yourself to a religion have at it. but how the hell is it not a huge ass red flag to encourage the major changes and opinions at an age that clearly decisions can’t be made.
Baptism at least can be ignored… it’s a bath at worse, a sprinkle at best. But it’s still a facepalmingly stupid concept at best when the child clearly isn’t the one making the decision (obviously excluding when adults decide to be baptised, I have no objections there).
Same for teaching kids to pledge allegiance to a piece of cloth. Same for “teach them to love their country etc…”.
No you know what, teach them accurate history of their country, and of other countries. When they have understanding of it, let them compare, see what our country does good, did bad, with context of what other countries did that was good, and bad.
It’s completely not a thing in any country I’ve visited except America. You guys are the gold ribbon looniest.
“just say the words” really sums up the problem.
If there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation, it is that no official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion or force citizens to confess by word or act their faith therein.
[…]
Those who begin coercive elimination of dissent soon find themselves exterminating dissenters. Compulsory unification of opinion achieves only the unanimity of the graveyard.
Justice Robert H. Jackson, West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette
While it’s true that this ritual is commonly practiced in the US, it is also true that everyone has the protected right to not participate, which has been upheld in court (Frazier v. Alexandre).
Personally, I feel that choosing to exercise your civil rights is a highly patriotic act.
One of my favorite truisms: One thing the flag stands for is you don’t have to stand for the flag.
Most people are actually pretty stupid when you think about it. Myself included.
I’d say you guys value patriotism too much. Typical of an empire too.
Btw, it’s what gave rise to the Nazis (among other factors).
Right except most kids and teachers don’t know about that so the kid still gets forced to do it
I was 8 when I moved to the US. It was bizarre. Obviously, as an outsider, I felt I had to fit in. I never questioned it. I didn’t understand it. I just said the words.
I guess at some point you understand the words (I left the US before then), but by that point it’s probably become a habit. It’s still the thing that everyone else in the class does. And you still want to fit in.
Never mind understanding the politics of the US that you have the right to not do something that is habitual and seems completely normal.
That we make children say this shit reveals how demented we are.