cross-posted from: https://lemmy.crimedad.work/post/151111
With the dust is settling from their defeat on Tuesday, it’s becoming clearer that there was some incredible malpractice going on in the Democratic party. As shown in the tweet I linked, Biden delayed dropping out even though his team knew it was going to be a complete blowout for Trump. Then, we have Harris’s campaign spending over a billion dollars and still losing all of the swing states she needed to win.
For all the Democrats who would never vote Republican and would have never voted third party, are you now considering voting third party in future elections? If not, what would it take?
I will never vote for a party that doesn’t stand an actual chance of winning seats. So until there is proportional representation or ranked choice, i will not be voting 3rd parties.
So you will always vote a straight Democratic ticket as long as there are Senate and House candidates with a good chance of winning? What if they have no chance of winning the White House? I think that that would be apparent if the people who ran Hillary, Biden, and Harris’s campaigns are still involved and the strategy is still to court Republicans. Can the Democrats perform poorly enough that you would decide that you might as well vote third party (or abstain)?
No i wouldn’t abstain from voting for sure. The only way I’d vote 3rd party under the current system is if they were polling above 40%. Which is absolutely absurd in this system. That would mean either the dems or gop were decimated, but at that point the 3rd party would be the new major party.
What 3rd party exists that is left leaning and is running for non president positions? Green Party doesn’t count, they’re compromised
Not sure what you mean. There were about four or so third parties on my ballot. There are also of course options to write-in a candidate or abstain.
How about we start with a third party that’s actually serious about being a third party rather than just showing up every 4 years to syphon votes? Like, you know, a party that actually runs at the local level and participates in Democracy. One of the big differences between our “third parties” and minority political parties in Europe, for instance, is that theirs actually participate in government. They work at smaller levels of government rather than just expecting to somehow get a prime minister. They build coalitions. They foster voter confidence by actually doing something.
The closest thing we have to that is literally just Bernie Sanders on his own. One guy does a better job at being something resembling a third party than any existing third party in the United States. That’s impressive for Bernie and absolutely pathetic for “third parties”.
Second? Once those third parties build up some actual participation in government and develop coalitions, use that growing power to give themselves a mathematical chance of actually winning.
Third? Don’t run a candidate until the first two are done. Because anything short of that is literally just enabling the Republicans to push both parties further and further to the right.
Do that and actually run on a platform I’d like to see more than Democratic neoliberalism and I’ll put them in the first slot in my runoff or ranked choice or whatever vote. Until then? Not a chance in the world. I don’t care how many times the DNC shoots themselves in the foot. Until the math is there and a party shows they’re actually willing to participate in all levels of government I’m not interested in propping up one of two egotists and their “party”.
I’d vote for Bernie in a ranked choice election in a second, though. I don’t care if he’s literally 100 years old.
Ranked choice voting or similar.
I’m vastly more in favor of Approval Voting, truth be told. Most anything’s better than what we have now, but ranked voting systems of any sort tend to have issues similar to FPTP, whereas Approval or Score voting don’t. Approval Voting is also dead simple, since the only change is that you can vote for as many candidates as you want.
If you want another choice, start working for it today, otherwise you’ll just be voting for the same lesser-evil ghouls in the next election. Run for office even if you don’t know what you’re doing. Be honest about it: “I may not have political experience, but what I do have is some principles that I will never compromise on.” Loudly argue against those with bad or overly flexible principles. Get together with your neighbors and build things that help people and strengthen your communities. The democrats are never going to be what you want them to be. We can’t afford the time it would take to maybe reform them.
The democrats are never going to be what you want them to be.
Presumably we want them to be winners, right? How is that going to happen if the same idiots keep running their campaigns and doing completely self-defeating things like talking down to crucial constituencies and wheeling out Dick Cheney from his crypt? It’s looking like they can’t be winners, at least not at the presidential level. So, how poorly will the Democrats have to perform that you decide that you might as well vote for a third party candidate? Would it not be enough to notice a lack of corrective action ahead of 2028 to make you reconsider your loyalty?
I’m not sure if you’re misunderstanding me, or I you. I’ve got no loyalty to the dems at all. I want a party that represents a reasonable approximation of my values to win. Dems have never really come close enough (republicans aren’t even in the same universe as my values). Don’t think I’m unwilling to compromise on anything though-- I kept my ballot blank til the last minute this election waiting in vain hope for a total reversal on Harris’ support for genocide. That is simply a bridge to far, no matter the context.
I think I misunderstood you. For my part, I do not put much hope these days in elections. It’s just that for decades now I’ve been told voting third party meant throwing your vote away. This time you were wasting your vote (and a serious moral principle) to cast it for Harris. It’s all just kind of astonishing to me, which is why I made the post.
If not, what would it take?
A viable third party candidate. Before anyone says it, Jill Stein is not it. Alternately, a voting method that allows voting third party without just enabling a GOP sweep (again).
It’d be great if this resulted in some major revision of the Democratic party from within, but I’m not holding my breath. I will, however, continue voting for the “less bad viable option” if the “more bad option” is on par with Trump.
That’s fair, but if the Democrats are also running candidates that aren’t viable or not running viable campaigns, then you’re just compromising your principles for nothing.
It’s about who has a chance of winning. If you’re trying to argue that any candidate other than Harris had a chance of beating Trump in this recent election, you’re kidding yourself.
I’ve said this before and I’ll continue saying it: Trying to inject a 3rd party candidate into the presidential race is foolish. A much better tactic would be trying to push for 3rd party candidates in smaller races for local / state government, or congress. Doing that is a lot easier, and can make small incremental changes that add up over time. There simply isn’t a realistic way for a third party candidate to compete in the presidential race until the voting system is changed.
If you’re trying to argue that any candidate other than Harris had a chance of beating Trump in this recent election, you’re kidding yourself.
I’m not trying to argue that. I’m saying that it’s becoming apparent that the Democratic party is in such bad shape that they had no chance to beat Trump either. If they fail to make significant changes, to their personnel and their platform, they are going to keep failing in subsequent elections. If they’re going to lose anyway, then there’s got to be a point where progressive Democrats start voting with some dignity for third party candidates.
A decent human being doesn’t vote for the most principled candidate, they instead vote for the candidate who would hurt the fewest number of people by winning while (importantly) actually having a chance of winning.
Moral absolutism isn’t moral, it results in people getting hurt, because whoever adheres to it decided for themsevles that their principles are more important than fellow human beings. The sooner you realize this, the better.
I will never vote for genocide, turns out there’s at least 15 million like me. You enjoy being responsible for this genocide and any expansion of it Trump does, as you voted for it.
It was actually self-defeating to run on a platform that got an (enthusiastically received) endorsement from Dick Cheney.
