I keep seeing the trump hitler analogy but whereβs the actual evidance. I did also see a yt vid of a holocaust survivor saying that the trump hitler analogy is offensive and wrong so just kinda seems like propaganda ngl.
Project 2025 literally promises to put people in concentration camps wtf do you mean βwhereβs the actual evidenceβ
Except many of the people who wrote it work on his campaign. Nothing to do with it is a lie, because heβs hired them.
Everything is Hitler.
Trump is a shitshow (pun intended), but thereβs also Trump Derangement Syndrome.
Well this isnt a good faith engagement of ideas this is just i have no argument and i must scream.
Trump has praised Hitler multiple times and is clearly a fascist. It makes sense that people compare him to Hitler, given the latter is the defacto example of extreme fascism.
The fact you made the comment that you made on this post tells me βgood faith argumentβ isnβt in your repertoire.
I think the best example is his rhetoric regarding immigrants. Even if you ignore the βpoisoning the bloodβ comments practically being a 1:1 of Hitlerβs rhetoric, the idea of deportating an increasingly longer list of people (including his political opponents) would require opening up detention camps to indefinitely detain them since itβs unclear where you even would deport most of them to.
While he isnβt explicitly sending said detainees to the ovens, the parallels to pre-war Hitler are way more founded than back in 2008 GOP calling Obama Hitler forβ¦ some reason.
Deporting illegal immigrants is literally hitler hey? Look i dont like what he stands for but perhaps it a little extreme to compare deporting illegal immigrants to murdering 6million people.
Hitler also said a lot about how every (german) man deserves a family, land, a house, and a job which is the same thing that practically every politician ever has promised.
Did I say illegal immigrants? Heβs threatened to deport way more than that, including legal immigrants, trans kids, political opponents, and more. Deporting political opponents doesnβt even make sense unless heβs really just saying he wants to detain them. Even if itβs a lie, scapegoating minority groups is a solid fascist tactic.
Maybe you should actually learn what happened in Germany in the years leading up to those 6 million people being murdered. Itβs not like all of Germany woke up one day and voted to start gassing Jews. It started with rhetoric exactly like whatβs spewing out of Trumpβs mouth these days.
Blame the βotherβ for all your troubles. Then dehumanize the other (we are here). Then start rounding them up.
Do we have to wait until he puts the first person in an oven to do anything about it? Thatβs how his supporters (you) seem to think. But weβre not stupid. Some of us actually learned from history.
How does have a rally in a specific area make u a nazi? Thats gotta be the stupidest argument ive ever heard. By that logic the current german president is a nazi cos the building their office in in.
If you think Iβm referring exclusively to the location then you clearly havenβt actually read or listened to anything that was said at the rally in question.
There were forced hysterectomies women were made to undergo in ICE custody. His supporters claim crime is linked to race, rather than poverty/alienation/neglect. Both attacked trans people and education around them. Both supported street thugs like The Proud Boys and other rightwing groups (the ones that Trump told to βstand byβ with violence, or the ones he said βwere fine peopleβ). Both were supported by a coalition of rightwing racists, like those who turned up to the Unite The Right Rally and the Tiki torch rally. Both pushed conspiracy theories, and specifically ideas around βCultural Marxism/Bolshevismβ. Both spread misinformation and targeted the safety of their opponents βthe traitorous leftβ. Both claimed to have victories they didnβt actually win. Both used executive orders to skirt democratic processes. Both won elections then rigged elections. Both had a sense of how to do propaganda. Both were sexual deviants with history of attraction to young girls. Both found support among wealthy business owners who did so for financial motives. Both praised and made alliances with other fascists and Authoritarians.
Trumpβs ex-wife even said he kept a book of Hitlerβs speeches on his bedside table, she said that before he ever ran for office.
There were forced historectomies women were made to undergo in ICE custody.
This is malinfornation and false1
His supporters claim crime is linked to race, rather than poverty/alienation/neglect.
What some of ur supporters may claim means nothing here is a hypothetical example. βIm a kamala harris supporter and i think crime is purly because of race and we should execute all non white peopleβ anyone can say that doesnt mean thats kamala harris supports it. Also race is statistically correlated with crime so it is linked just not causationaly so technically they are correct.
Both attacked trans people and education around them. Both supported street thugs like The Proud Boys and other rightwing groups (the ones that Trump told to βstand byβ with violence, or the ones he said βwere fine peopleβ). Both were supported by a coalition of rightwing racists, like those who turned up to the Unite The Right Rally and the Tiki torch rally. Both pushed conspiracy theories, and specifically ideas around βCultural Marxism/Bolshevismβ.
Anyone can make a venn diagram of Hitlers beliefs and anyone else and end up with a list just as long as this.
Both spread misinformation and targetted the safety of their opponents βthe traitorous leftβ.
When has trump targeted the safety of the traitorous left opponents. Who? U spread misinformation with ur claim about mass historectomies so i guess ur hitler.
Both claimed to have victories they didnβt actually win.
βWe beat medicareβ - president biden
Did we really?
Both used executive orders to skirt democratic processes. Both won elections then rigged elections.
How does utilising an executive order put in place for the executive within a democratic system constitute skirting a democratic purpose? Do the democrads do primaries cos how did kamala end up the nominated? How has trump rigged this election?
Both had a sense of how to do propaganda. Both were sexual deviants with history of attraction to young girls. Both found support among wealthy business owners who did so for financial motives. Both praised and made alliances with other fascists and Authoritarians.
This described almost every single politician in the history of politicians.
Trumpβs ex-wife even said he kept a book of Hitlerβs speeches on his bedside table, she said that before he ever ran for office.
βIf you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.β - Sun Tzu, The Art of War
Anyone can make a venn diagram of Hitlers beliefs and anyone else and end up with a list just as long as this.
Okay, do so with Hitler and Kamala Harris.
4 years later: βTHIS election is super important. Weβll talk about the trains in another 4 years.β
Haha! Yeah, fuck lgbtq people, disabled people, people on medicare, black people, hispanic people, non-christians, and the poor. Put them in camps. They just bitch and moan anyway. Iβm sure there are other people calling this a dangerous election who just say it every year, stuff them in the camps too! We gotta make them trains run on time!
Β―\_(γ)_/Β―
The lack of an /s in your comment worries me, especially since the entire conversation is about the fact that there are those among us who say what you just said with no hint of sarcasm.
Then I guess a bit of critical thinking will need to be applied. My comment was very obvious sarcasm.
Are you worried because someone might think me, a trans woman, is advocating for the internment of everyone who is not a white cishetero male Christian nationalist in favor of trains running in time? Cause⦠Me too honestly.
I get that the state of the US is abysmal, but if anyone is taking that comment seriously I hope they choke on a shotgun. /srs
Weβre here because people keep supporting a broken system. We keep getting elections with gerrymandering and candidates that donβt represent people because people are unwilling to take action outside of them or even exercise that power in its most basic form. Even if you maintain that things are genuinely good when Democrats win (weβll circle back on that one), itβs such a brittle system. Any progress that has been made can be wiped out every few years due to elections which have been gerrymandered to create the 50/50 coin-flip when the actual population doesnβt support the right at nearly that rate. Plus, because of the messed up process of supreme court appointments, we sometimes lose rights even when Democrats are in office because of a fundamentally undemocratic institution. You could argue thatβs all the more reason to have voted against Republicans in the past and why we should vote against them now, but once again: In a system that is supposedly based on constitutional protections, why are our rights contingent on the random time an old judge kicks the bucket? Or the supposedly illegal actions of a president?
Because thereβs nothing to actually stop any of it. Rights are hard to establish and enforce and really easy to be taken away or ignored. Republicans will βbreak the rulesβ and then Democrats will decide to be bound by not only the rules their βopponentsβ wonβt follow, but by the new rules that come out of their actions. If you truly believe your opponents are fascists, and youβre genuinely opposed to that, then nothing should be off the table for resisting them. At the tamest end of things the least they could have tried to do would be to break the power of the court or anti-majoritarian rules in the legislature. But again, if rules donβt matter to fascists, you should be willing to go way further than that to stop them. Instead, the β#resistanceβ under Trump largely consisted of tweets, protest signs, and a call to vote differently in 2-4 years while simultaneously questioning if weβd even have an election to vote in. If Trump wins are liberals going to get out there and do something about it? Are they going to storm the capital to boot out the fascists? Fight cops and feds from taking away minorities? No. Thatβs way too βuncivilβ for them. Weβre just gonna have to vote harder next time!
And if only all we had to talk about were the trains being on time!
Circling back to how things are under Democrats: Sure, maybe theyβre a bit nicer to minorities publicly, but we still get:
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An ever expanding military, police, and surveillance state. Bush might have started the Iraq/Afghanistan wars and enacted the Patriot act, but Obama continued the wars, including the torture and indefinite detention he said heβd end. We also learned about the NSAβs mass surveillance program under Obama and when confronted with the public outcry about an assault on our fundamental rights or the war crimes being committed by the military, he chose to go after whistleblowers instead of doing anything about it. Since then has ANY president or major presidential candidate even talked about the NSA or given any indication that theyβd cut back on surveillance or imperialism? In my lifetime over 3 Democratic and 2 Republican administrations, the military budget has tripped. And of course support for Israelβs genocide has continued with little more than hand wringing and empty promises.
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Anti-immigration policies continued under Obama and Biden. Biden in particular continued the detention centers and even allowed for the wall to keep being built.
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Climate legislation that isnβt good enough to meet the existential threat posed by the problem. Far from being βsomething is better than nothing,β these compromise positions obstruct efforts to implement the necessary changes. Plus whatever βadvancementsβ are put in place tend to be fairly temporary in nature. A regulation can be easily overturned by a future administration or court. Itβs a lot harder to go around destroying public transportation and clean energy infrastructure after itβs already been built. We are facing a global crisis and the system is going to get us all killed eventually, and poorer countries even sooner.
There are a lot of people who are hurt by US capitalism and imperialism even under Democratic administrations. Itβs a decision to not value those people. And itβs not even like theyβre always different people. The surveillance state hurts everyone, but in particular it makes it easier for the government to target undesirable groups like immigrants, LGBT people, or say, women who want to get an abortion. There are certainly LGBT people, disable people, women, PoCs, etc amongst those the US has bombed, sanctioned, or caused to live in chaos after a coup. Lack of adequate healthcare means that accessing abortions or gender affirming care harder even if they are completely legal.
But donβt worry, just vote for the Democrat then push them to the left! Byβ¦ uhβ¦ holding up signs? Making tweets? You definitely need to unconditionally vote for them again next time, so you canβt pressure them that way.
Itβs ok, next election weβll talk about ~the trains~ the military, surveillance state, healthcare, the environment, etc.
dun dun dun, dun
βWow, thatβs a lot of words.β
dun dun dun, dun
βShame Iβm not gonna read any of em .β
Anyway, all joking asideβ¦ This system is problematic and needs to be worked on. But I promise you the fix is not βabandon our most vulnerable citizens and our sovereignty for my mental picture of a utopiaβ.
You can actually hold protests about the trains, and talk about them immediately after the electionβ¦
β¦and youβll be doing so with someone who is slightly more likely to be concerned with their image, and hence slightly more likely to listen.
But only if you get out and vote in that direction. If you donβt vote - there may be a chance you just never get to talk about the trains again. Or even that talking about them is seen as illegal criticism of the state.
Thatβs the nature of fascism, you canβt be sure of what freedoms will be taken from you.
β¦and youβll be doing so with someone who is slightly more likely to be concerned with their image, and hence slightly more likely to listen.
Why would they be concerned with their image if people are going to vote for them anyway? We have a candidate who supports literal genocide and thatβs not bad enough for people to do something. What exactly, precisely, practically, is the mechanism for holding a politician accountable when you will always vote for them and wonβt take any actions outside the electoral system?
This really cuts to the core of the issue. Why would they need to listen to what people are saying if theyβve already won the election? To bolster their chances of being re-elected? But then the next election will most likely be a repeat. Vote for me or else the fascists win. Then we elect them, even though they state while they are running that they plan to do [x]. We make a big fuss to tell them we donβt want them to do [x]. They follow through with what they clearly stated while campaigning. And then next election itβs the same thing again. The only bargaining chip we really have as the American people is our vote.
If the situation is really that dire. (And I absolutely believe it is) And American democracy as a whole is at stake, who is really the one to blame? The people holding steadfastly to their beliefs and saying that they donβt feel comfortable/ good voting for someone who is saying they will continue to support genocide? Or the person that sees people saying that and points the finger at them as the problem instead of hearing them out and changing your policy to gain their votes? I understand that also poses the risk of losing votes, but do you really want the votes of people thirsting for genocide?
All of this being said I do completely understand that this is the choice that weβve been stuck with, and that things will be massively worse if Trump does get elected. Iβm voting for Harris, but I canβt say that I really blame people who feel like they canβt in good conscience. And I hate seeing everyone telling them to just shut up, vote Harris and worry about it after.
What fucking trains do we have in America? Inter city passenger railβs been on life support for a century here. Just vote to keep the Nazis out of the White House.
The trains were just keeping with the metaphor of the OP. (Although we do need much better trains too.)
Acting like the only thing wrong is train schedules is really reductive. People who insist on voting as THE prime form of political participation will often say that not voting for a lesser evil is a privileged position because youβre not going to be impacted by the stuff the other party will do. But Iβd argue there is an inherent privilege to being someone who wonβt be materially impacted by US imperialism.
Weβve all been conditioned to view the violence the government inflicts on the rest of the world as normal. Maybe you donβt agree with it, but only as much as you donβt agree with, say, tax policy. Itβs an abstract thing. Weβre removed from the constant horror it represents. Weβd like it if it wasnβt happening, but we donβt have to think about it most of the time and will clearly not do anything about it any time soon if everyone left of Hitlerβs position is βvote for the Hitler thatβs only going to do the bad stuff to other people.β
In general I take issue with people framing this as protecting democracy from fascism. The US is not a democracy.
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For starters, a constitutional democracy shouldnβt be able to end through a simple vote that doesnβt even include most of the country. If voting in fascists is an acceptable outcome of the system, itβs not a good system.
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From the ground up, the US was built to be as anti-democratic as possible while still technically having voting. Obviously it started with only land owning white men being allowed to vote. Itβs expanded slowly over the years, but it STILL explicitly disenfranchises people such as prisoners. The electoral college, gerrymandered congressional districts, and the longer, staggered term limits in the senate, and the lifetime term limit for supreme court justices are all mechanisms which were explicitly designed to filter out the will of the masses from influencing government. To bring in a personal example: I live in NY. My vote doesnβt matter. I donβt say that as an excuse for not voting because I know I wonβt have an effect of the election. I say that because I donβt even get a vote! Even if there was a candidate I cared about, just because of where I was born I can have zero influence on their election into government.
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Finally, Iβd argue that an imperialist country is definitionally not a democracy. The core principle of democracy is that the government rules over only those who have consented to it. An imperialist state such as the US takes actions all around the world in other sovereign countries that have major influences on people who never consented to be subjects of US power. An Iraqi whoβs house got bombed didnβt get a chance to vote against Bush. A person in Latin America didnβt get a vote on the US invalidating the vote in their country with a coup. Cubans, Vietnamese, etc. didnβt get to vote on the US making sure they couldnβt trade with the rest of the world.
As a related point to the last point: This is why I think itβs philosophically wrong to vote for candidates who donβt represent you in the US elections. In a democracy you are still considered to have βconsentedβ to being governed even by an opposition party you didnβt vote for because you consented to the process. By voting you are saying that you agree that this is the way we will choose our government and that you will abide by the results even if you donβt get the outcome you want. Thatβs fine if the process was truly democratic and you can live with any of the outcomes even if youβd prefer something different. But if all outcomes are systematically unacceptable to you and the process itself is flawed, then still casting your vote within that framework is consent to the government and the process that produced it. When you go vote, thereβs no box for βIβm only voting for this person because theyβre technically better than the other one. Iβm not actually ok with them.β You simply vote for Harris and the implicit choice of βI will not try to enact change in any other way.β
If you think Trump represents the rise of fascism and the end of democracy, then you shouldnβt be willing to abide by the results of the election anyway. But could you imagine any of the people telling you to vote against fascism taking up arms to storm the capital to protect that democracy and itβs people? Could you even imagine those people symbolically supporting leftists if they did this? I canβt. Because they didnβt do shit last time. Because they spent years talking about the right wing coup attempt in terms of it being treason rather than it being a problem because theyβre fascists. Because civility and rules are more important than anything else to these people. If Trump won, the day after the election the same people who said itβd be the end of democracy will be saying βWeβll get emβ in 2-4 years.β
Wait, Trump is promising to make the trains run on schedule too?
Is there anything he wonβt copy?
The only issue I have is the last part. Donβt wait four years to talk about whatever the issues are, you have representatives even in the outgoing administration and congress right now to contact. By all means vote for the right people to make sure you can still do that after the election without fear of retaliation, but donβt vote and then complain fours years later nothing was done if you havenβt reached out during that time frame.
It really is surprisingly effective. So few people actually contact their legislators.
I set up a harassment campaign and got a few hundred people to contact a state legislator whose committee was holding up legalizing weed in my state and a few months later it was legalized. Agitate. Make a difference. Protesting doesnβt do shit, get all the people there to call their representatives and senate members - especially for state and local stuff, and you might actually get something changed. Or even better, send a letter.
Yeah, this year the German government passed the law for decriminalization of weed, and it was almost blocked by our Federal Council if it werenβt for thousands of community members harassing them on social media and via Fax (yes, Telefax is still used by our government π€¦)
What you have to do in the us: bitch for 3 years about all your problems, then shut up for a year so the party that wants to genocide you doesnt get elected, and then you can start your bitching about everyday problems again. Its very sad that these two things occupy the same space.