warning: seriously nasty narcissism at length
archive: https://archive.is/eoXQj
this is a response to the post discussed in: https://awful.systems/post/220620
Ok, I’ve spent way too much time on this, but read the “Sharing Information on Ben Pace” section. As some of the comments point out, it could be written about Kat’s own reaction to the earlier article.
the attempt to defame Pace that Kat then tried to walk back but not walk back in the comments?
She seems to do this kind of thing a lot.
According to a comment, she apparently claimed on Facebook that, due to her post, “around 75% of people changed their minds based on the evidence!”
After someone questioned how she knew it was 75%:
Update: I changed the wording of the post to now state: 𝗔𝗿𝗼𝘂𝗻𝗱 𝟳𝟓% 𝗼𝗳 𝗽𝗲𝗼𝗽𝗹𝗲 𝘂𝗽𝘃𝗼𝘁𝗲𝗱 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗽𝗼𝘀𝘁, 𝘄𝗵𝗶𝗰𝗵 𝗶𝘀 𝗮 𝗿𝗲𝗮𝗹𝗹𝘆 𝗴𝗼𝗼𝗱 𝘀𝗶𝗴𝗻*
And the * at the bottom says: Did some napkin math guesstimates based on the vote count and karma. Wide error bars on the actual ratio. And of course this is not proof that everybody changed their mind. There’s a lot of reasons to upvote the post or down vote it. However, I do think it’s a good indicator.
She then goes on to talk about how she made the Facebook post private because she didn’t think it should be reposted in places where it’s not appropriate to lie and make things up.
Clown. Car.
oh god there’s comments on lw too https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/q4MXBzzrE6bnDHJbM/nonlinear-s-evidence-debunking-false-and-misleading-claims#comments
What a major coinkeydink that the same discussion is happening on a totally unrelated and unaffiliated forum. 🙄
oh no, they crosspost between LW, the EA forum and the AI Alignment forum regularly
If you post on EA forum or LW, you can crosspost automatically to the other one by clicking one button on the publishing page. The sites are run by essentially the same people.
Hmmm, I wonder who benefits from keeping EA chained to an Eliezer Yudkowsky fan forum…
i have not enough energy to check if that was mentioned before, but anyways it’s a good reminder: the whole cozy enterprise is, indeed, not a registered tax-exempt organisation, and none of the threee nonlinears returned by the irs search engine does seem to have anything in common with the nonlinear dot org.
i love that no-one of the lw commenters seemed to check the irs non-profit database.
ah, apparently there’s an activity popular in the ea circles that is called “fiscal sponsoring” which deals with such unpleasantness. (in the meantime there’s a question in the comments about puerto rico minimum wage compliance that’s – by pure omission – left without any reply whatsoever)
I cannot wade through this, so I’m just scrolling around aimlessly.
About 10% of the time was doing laundry, groceries, packing, and cooking - and she has to do many of those things for herself anyways! At least this is on paid time, feels high impact, and means she’s not sitting in front of the computer all day.
Feels high impact wtf.
“First they came for one EA leader, and I did not speak out – because I just wanted to focus on making AI go well.
Then they came for another, and I did not speak out – because surely these are just the aftershocks of FTX, it will blow over.
Then they came for another, and I still did not speak out – because I was afraid for my reputation if they came after me.
Then they came for me - and I have no reputation to protect anymore.”
How very tasteful, a Niemöller snowclone Godwin. Truly people who party on the beach for charity and have hot tub meetings are the most oppressed.
Maybe it was because Alice was microdosing LSD nearly every day, sleeping just a few hours a night, and has a lifelong pattern of seeing persecution everywhere.
What an insane way to talk about a former employee, much less one living with you. Pro tip for real businesses: never do this. If you’re going to disparage someone like this, it’s a job for your lawyer and he’d better have receipts. Also don’t live with your employees and let them take acid on the job.
Maybe it was because Alice was microdosing LSD nearly every day, sleeping just a few hours a night, and has a lifelong pattern of seeing persecution everywhere.
also, are these not habits that you must adopt if you want to fit in with the TESCREAL cult? it’s fucking disgusting for them to act like they think the habits they imposed on Alice are bad now that they have to cover for themselves, and it’s also something abusers do when called out
I don’t understand why any of these people have any problems with any of this abuse. If one person is harmed in process of benefiting a large group of people, isn’t that effective altruism? Wouldn’t Nonlinear be able to say, “so what about us fucking our employees, we’ve made AI safer which will save forty seven quintillion lives that’s EA baby!”
Or do I fundamentally misunderstand effective altruism based on critiques of the founder’s support of Sam Bankman-Jailed?
I think you fundamentally misunderstand the ethical reasonings behind EA. As this drama has kept carrying on, and now is again reaching hundreds of comments the amount of time this affair wastes of EA people both involved and not involved is massive. All this time is not spend reducing EA risk, so logically all these hours wasted are murders of future people. So for the good of the future all these people must be expelled from EA, ideally in such a way they never can waste time of anybody related with EA again, various types of kinetic or legal solutions exist for this.
I wish you were joking but they literally say this in the post:
At that hourly rate, he spent perhaps ~$130,000 of Lightcone donors’ money on [investigating us]. But it’s more than that. When you factor in our time, plus hundreds/thousands of comments across all the posts, it’s plausible Ben’s negligence cost EA millions of dollars of lost productivity. If his accusations were true, that could have potentially been a worthwhile use of time - it’s just that they aren’t, and so that productivity is actually destroyed. […]
Even if it was just $1 million, that wipes out the yearly contribution of 200 hardworking earn-to-givers who sacrificed, scrimped and saved to donate $5,000 this year.
Come now, my solution would involve a catapult, or if we can find the budget a trebuchet, clearly im not the same. ;).
Joke aside, that is pretty sad that they actually wrote that. And those kind of arguments are so dubious imho that I would be more inclined to doubt any of their defenses are true. (If I was in any way involved). Esp as the argument also just assumes the accusations are unfounded.
