“They have to do that stuff first to earn my vote! I don’t care if they never had the power to do so!”
-Morons
i’m just here for the yOuUuUuU sUpPoRt GeNoCiDe!!! chuds to get triggered and provide entertainment
“They’ve had 4 years to do something!”
Ughh… Learn how it works people. We had 2 conservative “Democrat” (golly gee look how Manchild is not a Democrat anymore literally…) senators deny everything from 2020-2022, then we lost the house to Republicans who’s idea of bipartisanship is to give Democrats the finger all the time from 2022-2024… Sooo what exactly could we do?
Then there’s the extra special people who want to “balance” by voting D president and R representatives… Ffs… That shit died when Gingrich started his “my way or go fuck yourself” brand of politics…
Lol I can understand the confusion, but I really am an American in America. I came over from the reddit exodus last year and lemmy.world couldn’t handle all the new people for a time so I swapped over to a smaller instance that happens to be from the Netherlands.
I hope you don’t mind me squatting here feddit.nl :P
Except I keep voting and they still don’t care what I think because I’m on the left.
The only reason I’m a registered Democrat is so I can vote in the primaries in my state. And I do so as often as possible.
The easiest way to increase turnout is running a young charismatic candidate with a progressive campaign, like 08 Obama…
Unfortunately we don’t have that option this election, probably not 2028 if Harris wins this one, so keep your fingers crossed for 2032 when people might be able to vote for a Dem candidate and not just against the Republican candidate.
Until then we’re doing the same dance as the last decade, holding your nose and hoping shit at least stops getting worse. And praying enough other people do the same.
You’re not wrong. Running on progressive policies would mobilize a lot of people to get up and vote. I think people just don’t want to hear it right now the only options presented to the public are Harris and Trump. With Trump being the most overtly fascist candidate we’ve seen in quite a while, those who don’t want Trump see Harris, who is running the same campaign as Biden (aka, business as usual) as the only option, because she is the only other option other than Fascism in this race.
Because of that, I think many people see any criticism of Harris or her position as advocating for Trump during this election cycle. Which I absolutely disagree with. I think everyone should absolutely demand more from our representatives. It is on them to galvanize support and get more people to vote, by advocating for legislation that those people want.
I think this mentality that it is the fault of the people for being apathetic, instead of the fault of the politician for not galvanizing more people to vote via popular policies, is misplaced due to the very real fear of the Republican parties policies and lack of influence over the Democratic party.
Instead of politicians aiming for wider public support through progressive policies, we see more democratic backsliding and a continuation of neoliberal policies. Which I think only makes more people apathetic.
Vote Harris. Even with the most pessimistic view, Fascism now is still much worse than Fascism later.
…
So you understand that Harris being more progressive would get more votes and help beat trump…
But because it’s so important to beat trump…
You think no one should publicly comment that Harris being more progressive would get more votes?
Biden isn’t the candidate anymore, there’s a decent chance Harris might listen and give voters what they want Or are you saying you don’t think she ever will?
No, I myself have advocated repeatedly that Harris should be more progressive. That was just my analysis of why some people don’t like to hear it, even if they are voting for her.
Honestly, I don’t think she will part from Biden on anything from what I’ve seen. I think it’s a big mistake when trying to gain as much votes as possible. She should have pivoted on things Biden is unpopular on.
I was extremely enthusiastic for the Harris ticket once Walz was picked, but after the DNC I got disillusioned. Still voting Harris, but I won’t stop advocating for things I feel like she needs to change on in the meantime. Maybe she’ll pivot after election, assuming she wins, but I kinda doubt that. If there are major national protests that force her to change, maybe. I’m not sure public organizing, including unions, is quite there yet.
Every time the Dems lose, they go to the center to find voters. Want them to stop going to the center? Then give them overwhelming and consistent victories.
If you think you can change their platform by not voting or voting 3rd party, you’re dead wrong. They will just go to the center voter even more. This is not a Mexican standoff that you can win, because they have an out which is worth double (a center voter is both a vote for them and vote taken away from the other party).
If a centre vote is worth double, then it doesn’t make any difference if the left are mobilised to vote or not.
With a mobilised left it’s left-vote=1 centre-vote=2
With an apathetic left it’s left-vote=0 centre-vote=2
Either way the centre vote is worth more so the party moves to the centre.
But if this is wrong, and the left vote is indeed worth more, then why change policies to court the centre, why not have openly leftist policies to attract this game-changing leftist vote?
You can’t have it both ways. You can’t claim that the democrats have to hide their leftist agenda to gain votes and also claim that the leftist voting block is the make or break of electoral success.
You have this all twisted around in who knows what. They move to the center when they lose. They don’t move just because.
Right now the left never shows up. Occasionally the Dems run on a left platform and they lose. Think Gore, think Hilary saying she’ll have a map room. After they lose they go to the center to find voters. Now imagine they don’t lose every time they run on a left policy? Because the left never shows up.
Occasionally the Dems enact a left policy. Think of Obama’s ACA. Thank Biden green energy. Their thanks for this is Obama lost the House of Reps, then lost the house of reps again, then lost both the house of reps and the Senate. Biden lost the house of reps, and polls shows Biden was going to lose. Now imagine they won after enacting left policy. They’re probably enact more. But the left never shows up.
If the left wants things to change They. Have. To. Show. Up.
Hide their agenda? They adopt what the people voters (the ones that show up) vote for. If the left voters show up, then guess what? More left policies will be adopted. C’mon this is civics for kindergartners. You have this so twisted around to justify not voting.
If the left voters show up, then guess what? More left policies will be adopted.
Why? A left vote is worth 1 (because they wouldn’t have otherwise voted right), a centre vote is worth 2 (because it’s also a vote away from the other party). So it doesn’t matter how many on the left “show up” their votes simply aren’t worth as much as centre voters.
That’s the argument given. Centre votes are worth double. The corollary is that they’ll always be the target demographic.
They win the last election and they are still moving to the center. They only aim for the center because they know the left has nowhere else to go.
Oh. And whilst I’ve got such a golden opportunity to have “kindergarten” level civics so patiently explained to me…
How do the Democrats find out the political leanings of the voters who won them the vote in order to reward? them next time with policies they like? Is there some magic poll they can access, but only after an election? Because any poll which they could access before an election would obviously tell them in advance what a willing and committed set of voters they’d have if only they put in some more left wing policies.
You’re suggesting polling subtle enough to determine policy preferences among different demographics, but somehow incapable of determining voting commitment/apathy. Apparently an actual election is the only way anyone can find that information out. But once done they magically know exactly why everyone voted the way they did.
The reality is the majority of the USA is in the center. It’s why we usually don’t have run away elections.
This is the answer. Us weirdos on a weird social network made by literal communists are not the majority and should stop acting like we are.
Every time I see a campaign ad for Harris I feel like I’m worthless to her because it’s all “yay America” and I know too much history to feel that way.
It’s bad that I want her to win… because she’s not trump and she’s not going to hand Ukraine over to putin…
How are we supposed to change their platform? Because rewarding them with victories when all they do is go to the center hasn’t been working.
You change their policy by giving them consistent and overwhelming victories.
Rewarding them with victories? They never have victories. They have had control of all 3 of presidency, House of Reps, and Senate for 4 of the last 24 years. Or 6 of the last 32 years. Or 6 of the last 44 fucking years. They need all 3 to do much of anything and they basically never have it. So they go to the center to find voters. So try something new and give them actual victories.
Every time any politician gets into office is a victory for them. That’s all they care about.
This is assuming that the dems are anything but Captialist lapdogs, and willing to do any of this. They will not I am sorry to tell you that
This is assuming that the dems are anything but Captialist lapdogs
It assumes Dems are in the majority at a uniform distribution. As though an extra 10M Californians voting for Harris will bend the needle on a race in Ohio or North Carolina or Texas.
Nevermind the “You get a supermajority and can pass anything you want!” is a scenario we already had in 2009. And what happened? Big bank bailouts. Lukewarm regulations. A bloated Pentagon churning out failed project after failed project to the tune of trillions. No DC statehood. No SCOTUS majority. No gun control. No immigration reform. No Single Payer. No Abortion enshrinement.
Republicans only hold power because you let them hold power
True! But only for the leadership of the party. When grassroot Dems turnout in droves, the senior leadership takes office on a platform of Bipartisanship and Cooperation. When grassroot Dems collapse in exhaustion and despair, suddenly you’ve got a Unitary Executive and a Simple Majority in the House and Senate and a SCOTUS that can tear up the Social Contract at its leisure all stacked in the favor of Republicans.
What does happen if Harris wins big in November? Do Democrats get anything they were promised over the last 30 years? Or do we get a Democratic President more fixated on going to war with Iran and “balancing the budget” on the backs of SS/Medicare than offering an improved quality of life for American residents?
Your opinion is not welcome on Lemmy!
Get out of here! Downvoted.
#VoteKamala
What I don’t understand is what harm is being reduced by doing “harm reduction”? I get maybe one or two election cycles the candidate isn’t ideal but after decades of horrible candidates that increasingly become more right wing over time it seems that no real harm is being reduced. Working class people are are still starving under Biden and likely will under Kamala, simultaneously the Capitalist class continues to aquire obscene amounts of wealth. Meanwhile we’re all supposed to go along with the idea that Neoliberalism is the only option while so called “radical leftists” (social democrats and social liberals) are too extreme for government. This election cycle we’re offered a candidate that has promised to encourage fracking, likley will not offer any federal protections for women and other minorities, openly supports Israel, and is overall a spineless corrupt career politican that for some reason we’re all supposed to nod our heads to and say “yup shes the face of the American left”. If we keep doing “harm reduction” soon we will all be reduced to nothing.
It’s not about harm reduction, it’s a slow boil towards fascism. We’re all just frogs in a pot of slowly heating water, except frogs actually will jump out before they boil to death; humans aren’t that smart.
Every four years the centrists say “vote for us, because the Other Guy is worse!” And they’re not wrong, especially since 2016. But they’re also not even pretending to be on our side anymore. Everyone says the Republicans have taken the mask off and aren’t hiding their evil, but it is the Democrats running a candidate who is openly working with members of the party of greater fascism, it’s the Democratic candidate who is pro fucking fracking the earth, and it’s the Democrats (as well as the Repubs) who aren’t even bothering to lie to us about wanting to stop the genocide that our tax dollars are directly funding.
However, I have to say that I’ll be voting for the party of lesser (or at least slower) fascism come November. Not because I agree with a single thing they’re doing (since their platform is still “We’re not as bad as the Other Guy”), but because they threw us exactly two bones in dropping Biden and giving the VP to one of the few Ds who actually looks progressive (where he can do the least damage, of course).
