cross-posted from: https://lemmy.zip/post/24088740
Do you think Lemmy and other parts of the fediverse will eventually enshittify? I think this would be an interesting discussion to have. There currently is not financial incentive like the ones that have led centralized platforms to enshittify. But there might be in the future. Does decentralization protect against that tendency in some way?
Lemmy and Mastodon do give me the hope, that when one platform turns to shit, there will be people creating a platform that - for the time being - is not.
It won’t enshittify in the strict Doctorow sense. But it will become shittier as more people who are currently plaguing Reddit, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and making those platforms terrible discover the Fediverse and come splatter their cowpats here. That’s almost inevitable: it’s happened to just about anything that ever became popular.
Incidentally, that’s also a big part of the reason why it’s supremely important to boycott Threads and not let it federate: the Fediverse needs to grow, but it doesn’t need to grow with an influx of low-quality Facebook users.
How to prevent those people from joining? I don’t think you can.
On the other hand, Reddit communities never got that terrible, right? Not all of them at least - it’s more that the platform turned to shit. Lemmy prevents that from happening. The concept of communities moderating themselves seems to work pretty well.
It’s not like the current group of users is perfect either. There’s a lot of circlejerk opinions going around, and I’ve seen being get majorly downvoted for posting factual info that went against the “hivemind” opinion.
This pretty much. For as much as people are concerned that the “lack of UX” or the “discoverability” problems keeps people out, the important thing is it keeps normies out.
As I’ve seen before on some posts on the Fediverse discussing proprietary platforms, we all already know this. We saw FB went to shit as soon as it started allowing uneducated users.
What an incredibly elitist take. I personally think the fediverse should be welcome to everyone.
Do you choose your friends and the folks you hang out with? Of course you do. Why should it be any different in the communities you patronize?
I came here because I was tired of suffering the morons on traditional social media platforms. The Fediverse is not perfect - nothing ever is - and it has its fair share of undesirables too, but it’s much better, and I’m not looking forward to the morons following me here and making things worse. They belong to Facebook and the likes, and they should stay there.
No, it’s not possible. The openness of the platform means even if one instance decides to paywall, everyone else keeps working just fine.
I think it’s inevitable that enshitification will happen. In fact, we haven’t risen above the shit stage yet.
You’re talking about going downhill, whereas I don’t think it’s gone uphill yet. There’s so few users, that I run through content in about 30ish minutes.
Whereas for as much shit as you’ll talk about reddit, they have infinately more content. I cannot remember EVER running out of content when I was on reddit.
Last night I wanted to talk to people who enjoy the advance wars series. I started playing super famicom wars. And I wanted to post about it. Until I realized this isn’t reddit. There is no community for that here. It’s too niche, and theres no users to support that community. Even if I created it, it would just be 1 community, with like 1 post by me, and 5 subscribers.
Until this place gains millions of users, you can’t talk about enshitification, because we’re already there.
Unless you come here exclusively to talk about linux. In which case, yeah. Good luck with your platform that is currently 30+ years old, and enjoying an all time high userbase of less than 5% despite windows being a dumpster fire, and macs costing more than a house in an economy where everybody lives paycheck to paycheck and will for the rest of their life. They’d rather deal with apple or microsoft than linux, simply because of what linux is.
If thats what you’re here for, than sure. For everybody else, this place feels like it’s continually LOSING users.
There is no community for that here
If you open a advance wars or super Famicom wars thread on !patientgamers@sh.itjust.works and !retrogaming@lemmy.world I’m pretty sure you’ll get a lot of answers.
Everytime I post on !patientgamers@sh.itjust.works I get dozens of answers
Also
- !gardening@lemmy.world
- !inktober@sh.itjust.works
- !foodporn@lemmy.world
- !homebrewing@sopuli.xyz
- !newcommunities@lemmy.world
There’s more than Linux
That is such a disorganized way to do things. Retrogaming is about retro gaming as a whole, not individual games. I’m sure there may be a few people who enjoy it, but a dedicated community would be where you should be wanting to post.
Besides, I didn’t have questions. I just started playing Super Famicom Wars, and wanted to talk about it. See if others have played the fan translation I am. I get super excited about topics, and I want to share…but this wouldn’t be the place for that.
And this happens usually once or twice a day. I want to post about (topic) but (topic) doesn’t have a community people would search to find that kind of content.
Last week it was G-Scale trains. I see a general model train community, but it’s mostly dead. And certainly they wouldn’t want to discuss G-Scale.
Last week I had to post in retrogaming, because the retropie community hasn’t had a post in 8 months.
The fediverse needs people, and content to grow. I feel like it’s even slightly shrinking.
Even if, for instance, Threads was widely allowed to federate with Mastodon servers?
Ironically Mastodon.social is still federated
https://fedipact.veganism.social/
But I guess if Threads fully federates with some Mastodon instances, people would leave those instances
Maybe, but threads userbase would swallow mastodons whole, that you wouldn’t notice. Facebook has something like 58 million people. Mastodon I think has 12 million people, including the recent brazil exodus.
So if that happened, even if every mastodon user were on that one instance, you’d still have a potential growth of 46 million new users.
The fediverse’s decentralization is meant to circumvent this possibility. It’s all too easy to ignore one or two bad instances if it comes to that. No matter how big they get. It’s part of the reason you don’t see the lemmy.world instance in the lemmy server browser. It forces people to spread across the instances more instead of lemmy.world taking the direction of the fediverse wherever they see fit due to how many users they have. As long as the admins continue to respect this viewpoint, enshittifcation of the Fediverse will be postponed.
It’s part of the reason you don’t see the lemmy.world instance in the lemmy server browser.
On join-lemmy.org you mean? I didn’t know that, but that’s great to see. Lemmy.world has become pretty big.
I’ve only been on this platform for a little less than a year, but my guess is it will be brought down by petty infighting, not financial incentives. World and a few other instances have already decided to defederate from hexbear, and there’s enough tension between World and ml that defederation seems like a real possibility. While the goal may be a decentralized platform, the largest communities are on these two instances, and it they break apart their might not be enough content to keep new users’ interest.
Even if Lemmy gets past the infighting between the liberal Reddit refugees of World and the, “old Lemmy,”" communists of ml, users seem to tie their identity very heavily towards their instance. I’m worried that in the long term, that will drive people away from committing to cross-instance communities; even now, I hear people brag about how they’ve blocked entire instances because they’re full of, “centrists,” or, “tankies.” I think the downside of federation is that it leads to tribalism, and enough of it could kill the momentum Lemmy needs to grow.
I don’t mean to sound down on Lemmy; it’s the most interesting platform I’ve seen in years, and I’m curious to see how it develops. But at this point, I’ve abandoned Reddit, Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and MySpace; I’ve learned that social media accounts are not permanent parts of your life. I’m having a lot of fun with Lemmy, but I don’t expect to be using it in 5 years.
Yeah, if I were ever to switch instances, that would probably be my next move. It’s still really small, though. Green Text seems like the only decently sized community.
Potentially, but in different ways. You could argue that mass defederation and hostility between communities are the beginning of a fediverse specific enshittification process. And instead of running out of money and then swamping platforms with ads, the big servers could run out of money or get a bored admin and instances could dissapear. Constantly dissapearing instances could also be a fediverse specific enshittification process.
