Yeah, can you imagine? Cars actually driving below speed limits and not risking everyone’s lives? Good thing this buddy makes side we can all speed like idiots instt
If only speed cameras worked to lower the speed anyone travels at… Realistically, people are going to drive the speed that feels safe for that road, and a speed camera is just going to disproportionately punish people without the money to pay the fines.
Make roads that are designed for the speed you want people to drive at, not wide open expanses that give no actual reason to slow down.
If only speed cameras worked to lower the speed anyone travels at
They do. They objectively do. How are there so many people all over this thread just confidently asserting complete, disprovable bullshit, and why is it getting upvoted? From the Cochrane systematic review:
Thirty five studies met the inclusion criteria. Compared with controls, the relative reduction in average speed ranged from 1% to 15% and the reduction in proportion of vehicles speeding ranged from 14% to 65%. In the vicinity of camera sites, the pre/post reductions ranged from 8% to 49% for all crashes and 11% to 44% for fatal and serious injury crashes. Compared with controls, the relative improvement in pre/post injury crash proportions ranged from 8% to 50%.
Authors’ conclusions: Despite the methodological limitations and the variability in degree of signal to noise effect, the consistency of reported reductions in speed and crash outcomes across all studies show that speed cameras are a worthwhile intervention for reducing the number of road traffic injuries and deaths. However, whilst the the evidence base clearly demonstrates a positive direction in the effect, an overall magnitude of this effect is currently not deducible due to heterogeneity and lack of methodological rigour. More studies of a scientifically rigorous and homogenous nature are necessary, to provide the answer to the magnitude of effect.
I would love to see a more recent study. Safety tends to be a weird subject, particularly the treadmill of introducing safety features, which means more drivers drive unsafely because safety features give an appearance of safety.
Overall, I still stand by what I said outside of maybe the very first sentence. Even if they DO slow traffic, there are vastly better ways that don’t have a disproportionate impact.
My city started putting in speed cushions at roads that were constantly over-traveled. Neighborhoods that would see increased traffic during rush hour, for instance. They’re aggressive, you have to go BELOW the speed limit to safely drive the route. Those roads see SIGNIFICANTLY less traffic, and the traffic that is there is slower.
Fines just don’t work to deter your average driver, or at least not as much as physics does.
Interesting. Mostly what I see is people slam on their brakes near the camera, then take off again after it.
My theory: There’s so little enforcement of the traffic laws here, they might as well not exist. You’re almost certain NOT to get caught, so people will do whatever they want and will practically always get away with it. I don’t really want to argue for more cops, but when I’ve driven in areas with more traffic enforcement and visible police presence, people tend to drive much more sedately.
I drive and ride bicycle, and I would LOVE if the cops came riding with me some time. I see some of them doing the 100 mile ride for charity in our county, so I know they have people on the force who ride fairly seriously. Join one of our regular group rides wearing cycling clothes (not police gear), get another cop stationed ahead in a car or motorcycle…and start pulling over some people who buzz us or roll coal. Word would get out very quickly.
That’s not true. They are not traveling at safe speeds. Crashes over 70 mph have a sharply increased risk of fatality. Yet people routinely choose to go faster. They even choose to bully people who won’t go faster on 65 mph roads.
Rules are put in place for a reason, but people treat speeding like an oopsie daisy because that’s how the law treats it. We need more speed enforcement and tougher penalties. Not less. This is an area where people’s feelings are very very wrong.
people treat speeding like an oopsie daisy
And often even this is too generous. Most drivers I’ve seen in the US treat speeding like a calculated risk that they feel out over time. They will with an unambiguous understanding of what the speed limit is choose to not just exceed it, but to actively target a speed that’s (usually 5 mph or 8 kph) over it.
I don’t disagree with anything you said. Slowing down is a good thing.
The problem I have with this approach is that speed limits either do nothing, or do marginal work compared to designing roads that aren’t able to be driven at excessive speeds. Narrower lanes, chicanes, medians, speed bumps or cushions - all VASTLY more effective at actually slowing traffic than a camera or cop saying “hey! Slow down or pay the toll!”
What the hell this is new, so road safety was created to hinder the poor? Just drive below the speed limit and stop making stupid excuses
I didn’t say it was created to hinder the poor.
I said fines DISPROPORTIONATELY PUNISH THE POOR.
If you have $1000, a $200 fine is 20% of your money.
If you have $2,000,000 a fine of $200 is . 0001% of your money, basically nothing.
This means that, relative to their money, a poorer person hurts more from the same fine. This is a BAD IDEA for enforcing rules everyone is supposed to follow. Essentially, we’re encouraging people to drive slow, unless they can pay the toll for speeding.
There are ways to mitigate this - sliding scale fines, for instance. I personally don’t like fines as punishments in general, though. I’d rather use neutral traffic calming features, that always invariably impact people who use the route the same, and make it a criminal offense to drive recklessly, akin to drunk driving.
Traffic jams are caused by speedcameras because those who are speeding hit the fucking break paddle as hard as i want to slap you for saying bullshit
The absolute entitlement.
Edit: For those not wanting to read through this whole thing, speed cameras have been shown objectively in a systematic analysis of 35 studies to reduce traffic injuries and deaths.
Thirty five studies met the inclusion criteria. Compared with controls, the relative reduction in average speed ranged from 1% to 15% and the reduction in proportion of vehicles speeding ranged from 14% to 65%. In the vicinity of camera sites, the pre/post reductions ranged from 8% to 49% for all crashes and 11% to 44% for fatal and serious injury crashes. Compared with controls, the relative improvement in pre/post injury crash proportions ranged from 8% to 50%.
Authors’ conclusions: Despite the methodological limitations and the variability in degree of signal to noise effect, the consistency of reported reductions in speed and crash outcomes across all studies show that speed cameras are a worthwhile intervention for reducing the number of road traffic injuries and deaths. However, whilst the the evidence base clearly demonstrates a positive direction in the effect, an overall magnitude of this effect is currently not deducible due to heterogeneity and lack of methodological rigour. More studies of a scientifically rigorous and homogenous nature are necessary, to provide the answer to the magnitude of effect.
Edit 2: That being said, speed cams are objectively helpful aren’t the sole tool we should be using. Traffic calming is enormously beneficial and cost-effective for making places with roads safer for drivers and pedestrians.
Is it the cars, or is it police using laws as revenue generators that intentionally affect the poor disproportionately?
Would it generate revenue if people didn’t feel so entitled to put others’ lives in greater jeopardy to get to their destination 30 seconds faster? No? Not speeding is the easiest thing in the world; it’s an objective number not to exceed that you directly control and that your car tells you in real time, but at least in the US, drivers are in an arms race to see what kind of bullshit they can get away with, making cops less likely to pull them over. This means that when the average driver can – without warning and with precision – be dinged for speeding, they throw a tantrum about it and act like they’ve been victimized.
Ticketing does disproportionately affect the poor, and we should reform ticketing to change based on income, but can you seriously tell me with a straight face that the people doing this are doing it because they’re protesting socioeconomic injustice? Or because they’re entitled drivers who want to be able to speed with impunity? It’s the drivers here being entitled and thinking that they’re above the law. Personal vehicles are a privilege, not a right, but drivers don’t treat it like one. Over 100 people per day die to motor vehicle crashes in the US alone, and kinetic energy increases with the square of velocity; if drivers don’t like speed limits, they’re more than welcome to stay off the streets and stop thinking their personal convenience trumps people’s right to life.
These cameras do nothing to improve safety. There is no meaningful scientific evidence that shows any difference improvement in safety.
Their only value is socioeconomic harm.
“after accounting for MVC increases in the control segment we found that neither camera placement nor removal had an independent impact on MVCs. In other words, speed cameras did not statistically contribute to an increase or decrease in the number of MVC.”
so the camera can’t be wrong? now someone has to go to traffic court if they want to fight it over a camera that’s 1 second off or uncalibrated?
-
if you drive at the speed limit you won’t have a problem
-
the speed camera will be well signposted (car on the left so this is the UK) while it’s not a legal requirement that they have signposts I’ve never come across a fixed camera that isn’t
-
If you don’t break the law you won’t have a problem
-
the camera is painted bright yellow for visibility
-
once again for the those at the back who are hard of thinking: don’t speed and you won’t get fined
-
usually for first time offences if you’re just a bit over the limit you’ll get the option of a speed awareness course.
-
You’ve probably come to expect odd numbered points to tell you to not break the law by now, so I’ll mix it up: if you get caught breaking the law and get a slap on the wrist, don’t keep breaking the law.
I do agree though that the fining structure should be reformed, it should be a percentage of income with some provision in place so the super rich can’t get out of paying their appropriate share too.
- If you don’t break the law you won’t have a problem
this MF is a bootlicker if I’ve ever seen one.
there are a million ways a cop would fuck you over, primarily being “not white” or looking at them wrong, NOTHING to do with law.
I’ll give the UK a break as they’re not nearly as bad as the US, but cops are not your friends and that sentence quotes is a joke.
“if you got nothing to hide, let me search your car”
fuck no.
That’s an issue yes, but objectively America needs to slow down. Accidents above 70 have a sharply increased chance of death. Nobody needs to be doing more than 65. Electric cars also use a lot more energy and tire material to go above 65 and gas cars are using more gas to do it. This generally happens because in order to maintain those speeds they’re constantly accelerating and braking around other cars.
I’m sorry driving isn’t fun, it was never meant to be once we obliterated mass transit in the US. It’s meant to get you to the destination, preferably safely.
There are no speed limits on German motorways yet the death and accident rate is not higher that in their neighbours’ countries. Go figure.
I’m sorry driving isn’t fun, it was never meant to be once we obliterated mass transit in the US. It’s meant to get you to the destination, preferably safely.
You’ve never been in a fun car on a fun twisty back road. This is what driving should be, as we should not be dependent on driving to get everywhere.
People trying to argue with this point, but the point is that if the punishment for a crime is fine, then the crime only punishes the poor.
This is the most Lemmy thread ever. If only my instance hadn’t blocked hexbear. ❤️❤️❤️
Road safety is bad mmkay
cameras do NOT make the roads safer. it’s a revenue stream based off ripping off it’s citizens. if anything everyone slams on their brakes when they see one causing more accidents.
Except they do make it safer and because there’s always tonnes of signs around them you don’t get the brake slamming. They act as a deterrent. Plus accidents at lower speeds are inherently less dangerous.
Mobile speed traps, however, are a definite revenue boost.
Give it up, bro. Everyone here wants to circlejerk that breaking the law is cool.
yes, because no one has ever gotten a ticket or in trouble for something they didn’t do.
They litterally demonstrably do. Either actually engage your brain and look things up instead of parroting nonsense or take your bullshit back to reddit.
Why on Earth is this unfounded argument getting upvoted so heavily? Objectively the science says that it reduces injuries and deaths. Per the linked Cochrane systematic review of 35 studies:
Despite the methodological limitations and the variability in degree of signal to noise effect, the consistency of reported reductions in speed and crash outcomes across all studies show that speed cameras are a worthwhile intervention for reducing the number of road traffic injuries and deaths. However, whilst the the evidence base clearly demonstrates a positive direction in the effect, an overall magnitude of this effect is currently not deducible due to heterogeneity and lack of methodological rigour. More studies of a scientifically rigorous and homogenous nature are necessary, to provide the answer to the magnitude of effect.
People on the Internet will just upvote the most confidently incorrect shit as long as it has enough confidence behind it and it vaguely aligns with their preconceptions, I swear.
I think the sentiment against them stems from the fact that there are ways to reduce speeds without feeling like they’re being used as a revenue stream.
Personally I like when there are warning signs saying “Speed camera in use ahead” since it has the effect of slowing down traffic and not feeling like a “gotcha” moment.
Sure sure, the speed cam after the slope in the woods is for safety, mhm.
I mean I don’t know how you could think it wouldn’t be. Well signposted camera will help you pay more attention to your speed on the slope, it’s woods so presumably animals could run out at you.
If you can’t see a bright fucking yellow speed camera, and haven’t been paying attention to the ten dozen signed, then that’s 100% on you.
Probably you should be breaking on the hill? Regardless of if your foot’s on the gas or you’re just letting the slope do the work, you’re still speeding which is a hazard.
Yeah, I’m sure it also racks up some revenue too. Why not get a few more bucks while keeping the careless on their toes?
Do you have a source for your belief that speed cameras make the road significantly safer?
In the vicinity of camera sites, the pre/post reductions ranged from 8% to 49% for all crashes and 11% to 44% for fatal and serious injury crashes. Compared with controls, the relative improvement in pre/post injury crash proportions ranged from 8% to 50%.
However, whilst the the evidence base clearly demonstrates a positive direction in the effect, an overall magnitude of this effect is currently not deducible due to heterogeneity and lack of methodological rigour. More studies of a scientifically rigorous and homogenous nature are necessary, to provide the answer to the magnitude of effect.
Lemmy: Fuck cars!
Lemmy: Fuck the police!
Lemmy, when someone sabotages the most viable alternative to traffic stops to prevent people from speeding: Yes very good. This is good for society.
Source on speeding cameras working for anything other than revenue generation?
If that were the case, they would be hidden.
They are a deterrent for speeding most of all.
The ones around here, everyone just slows down getting to that intersection, and then picks up speed again after crossing through
More crashes and deaths means less cars and people.
Double win for the environment.
Environmentalists should be encouraging speeding and drink driving.
In the UK (Where the op picture is) the police cannot collect the revenue from cameras and other fines. It all goes to the gov so the cops have zero financial incentive to install speed cameras.
Speed traps are just a tool to further monetize and rent seek car culture in the absence of public transit.
You can, in fact, hate both cars and infrastructure that exists solely to make using a car more expensive.
the most viable alternative to traffic stops
I have never heard of a town that reduced the size of its police force after installing a speed trap.
They do not exist solely to collect revenue, although they certainly do that as well. They have been proven time and again to reduce speeding and fatalities, as other commenters in this thread have pointed out. As far as using traffic cameras to reduce police forces, I haven’t been able to find that exactly, but there are plenty of examples of deploying traffic cameras to work around a shortage of officers which works out to the same thing.
For reasonable people yes, but those that go 30km/h over the speed limit every time don’t care and will always drive as fast as possible in those sections. I once met a guy who claimed to know down to the exact last km/h how fast he could drive until the car lost control in every single curve of a quite curvy road segment. Is it save to drive like that? Absolutely fucking not. Does he car(e)? Also absolutely fucking not.
The most viable alternative to traffic stops is a narrow chicane with solid bollards on either side, although oher traffic calming devices are available.
Traffic cameras exist to generate revenue, not to make the streets safer. Intersections with red light cameras almost always have shorter yellow lights, to increase revenue while making the intersection less safe.
No. Traffic cameras in your area are there to generate revenue.
The camera being covered here is not at an intersection so your offtopic comment about revenue is irrelevant. This is a camera on a stretch of road where drivers usually speed, the cameras are painted bright yellow to make them obvious and do a far better job of getting people to slow for hazardous corners than a sign ever did.
In California the duration of yellow is determined by a formula incorporating the roads speed limit. If yellow light duration is less than the formula would set, the traffic ticket is dismissed. I’m guessing most states have a similar law.
How is this not “fuck the police” it’s a camera, controlled by the police, to surveil people.
It only surveils idiots who are speeding.
Why is this not fuvk people who put pedestrians, cyclists and other drivers in danger
Better rule: when someone sabotaged surveillance state infrastructure, don’t post footage of them doing it
Lemmy try not to post crimes challenge - impossible. Granted, as far as crimes go, this one seems innocuous enough, but still.
I’ve been told repeatedly on c/piracy that lemmy is just too small to attract the attention of law enforcement and three-letter agencies
Paradoxically, I’ve also been told that lemmy is rife with state-sponsored troll farms, so…?
I dunno if you’ve tried, but I’m here to tell ya, cobble stone streets will absolutely stop speeding really quick.
Nope, just observed it on this weekend on a cobble stone street in very bad condition. It was a 30 km/h zone and other drivers where more about 50.
While I, who only had a driver’s license for 3 months, tried not to break the suspension of my car (obviously unfounded).
fuck cars
