u/IEA has been permanently banned from c/Conservative.
But where do we store the energy is the question. Without storage renewables aren’t that useful.
In most jurisdictions, tripling renewables doesn’t get us to a place where we’re generating more electricity than we can instantaneously use. The few places where it is possible can usually export excess electricity to neighbouring jurisdictions that still rely heavily on fossil fuels.
We still have a depressingly long way to go before we’re at the point of renewables generating “excess” energy that needs to be stored.
But where do we store the energy is the question. Without storage renewables aren’t that useful.
That’s probably propaganda from the oil company. They try to slow down the adoption of renewables by making it look harder than it is.
Fact is: You can start deploying renewables immediately. Every kWh that comes from solar does not come from coal, oil or gas. That is a win. Install renewables first, think about storing the excess power later. That is the best way to go!
I work in the UK energy sector, and that’s definitely not true! About 1/3 of our energy comes from wind which is somewhat but mostly not stored.
Fossil fuels end up doing the work of balancing the grid during times when wind and solar are low. That’s not ideal, but a world where fossil fuels are used to balance renewable provision is much better than a world where they’re the primary energy source.
We’re running out of time to prevent the worst effects of global warming, and any increase in renewables provides some mitigation to the impact. Very few, if any, countries are at the point where current battery tech should stop them increasing their renewables.
Fossil fuels end up doing the work of balancing the grid during times when wind and solar are low. That’s not ideal, but a world where fossil fuels are used to balance renewable provision is much better than a world where they’re the primary energy source.
That’s true, but only as long as your primary source/balancing source are fossil fuels. I can imagine a lot of them being burned during short and cloudy winter days + all nights in this scenario. If we want to avoid CO2 emissions, nuclear pps seems like the best choice today. But then we don’t need nearly as much renewables. Tricky situation, even worse for countries without much wind.
I work in the UK energy sector, and that’s definitely not true! About 1/3 of our energy comes from wind which is somewhat but mostly not stored.
Yep, because you are still relaying on fossil fuels and can adjust their output quite dynamically. But the more renewables power you have, the more fossil fuels you’ll burn when renewables aren’t producing.
Makes sense?
I agree with all of what you said, apart from “without storage renewables aren’t that useful”.
UK and USA are good comparatives here, where the USA has better nuclear provision, but on average very little renewables (approx 10%). The UK obviously burns more fossil fuels when renewables aren’t used, but in spite of this still generates less than 1/3 of the co2 per KW overall as the USA (120g vs 390g).
So storage would be drive that down much further, but even without it, more renewables equals less CO2 overall in pretty much every real world case.
Data sources in CO2 per KW: UK: https://grid.iamkate.com/ USA: https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=74&t=11
Pumped hydro, hydrogen, batteries. The solutions are readily deployable and economcally viable.
Are they, though? Can you list some bigger storage facilities based on either H or batteries? Like ones that would power a city for few days, for example.
I can’t but it’s also not necessary. There are no conditions were no energy from renewables is produced. You have to cover peaks and shift electricity around a bit. The missing parts are interconnection and, dependend on price, overbuilding.
I think solar will just drop in price so significantly that energy storage will be possible by pure scale. If you get paid to use electricity (which already happens during the day in summer), it doesn’t matter if your efficiency is terrible. It’s not elegant but it’ll get us close to net zero. Unless we blow all of our energy on stupid shit like generative “AI”
Either electro-chemically in batteries, but they might not get energy dense enough for seasonal storage.
Or chemically by creating Hydrogen, Methane or Ammonia. Those are very energy dense and except for Hydrogen easy to store with existing infrastructure. Currently it is just prohibitively expensive, because the net efficiency is bad, especially for Methane and Ammonia.
So without an Oracle I can’t say which it will be, but one or more of those will work if the world is committed to net zero.
Hydroelectric dams. Pump water uphill when the energy isn’t needed for something else. Hydroelectric is a good variable energy source too. Probably not very efficient, but simple.
I think pumped hydro is reasonably efficient, but requires specific terrain in order to be practical to build. Batteries are getting cheaper, and since grid storage doesn’t have the stringent weight and volume requirements that vehicles do, a wider range of chemistries (not just lithium) can be used.
I really hope to see more developments in the realm of gravity batteries. In many cases they are not geographically constrained, given that it only requires vertical space and mass. Ideally, the land already has high variation in elevations, but the storage capacity can still be increased in areas with little vertical space by increasing the mass of the weight being lifted/lowered.
I’m sure you know this, but for curious readers: pumped hydro is also a gravity battery, but it requires two bodies of water at differing elevation. This means it’s limited to coastal areas and places like dams. It’s also limited by the smaller capacity reservoir between the two bodies of water; the amount of water moved cannot exceed the maximum capacity of the upper body, nor can it exceed the extra capacity of the resevoir of the upper body.
How is it feasible to TRIPLE renewables when we can’t even double up…double up on the bubble butt?
