YES
END THE HYPOCRISY
👏 FORCE
👏 MEN
👏 TO
👏 WEAR
👏 SHIRTS!
^^^apologies, i should have appended an ‘/s’^^^
Heck nah, free the tiddy. I’m transitioning and I wanna be able to show off what I’ve grown when I’m able haha
Also just like, can we all stop making everything sexual and let peoples bodies exist. Instead of hiding everything and making ourselves feel ashamed of our bodies
Free them tiddies!
On a serious note, while I’ve always believed that boobs aren’t inherently sexual, years of bathing people has extended that to all nudity.
Once you get used to seeing people naked all the time, nudity by itself ceases to be sexual. There has to be intent to the nudity to matter.
And it isn’t like I didn’t bathe attractive boobs and vag (that being what I’m attracted to personally, I’m not into guys), I did. Plenty of them, surprisingly, what with accidents and illnesses being involved (you’d think that illness and injury would reduce the attractiveness overall, what with part of attractiveness being signs of health). Even in nursing homes, there were enough attractive bodies that most people would be surprised.
But it wasn’t sexual at all. Well, not for me anyway, some of the patients had moments.
It’s just skin.
The flip side of that is that after a while, I just got annoyed at people doing the usual “old people gross” bullshit. No, they aren’t, they’re just old. Age, disability, none of it makes someone’s body unpleasant inherently. Tbh, there’s beauty in all of it after I got past the initial dissonance with nudity in general. That “I’m not supposed to be seeing this” that we get drilled into us.
I always look at it this way… being into feet is one of the most common paraphilias(other than breasts) that people can have.
If folks into feet can control themselves in summertime when barefeet and sandals are common, then people into boobs can control themselves when they see female nipples out.
I also agree that we need to desexualize the nude human body outside of sexual contexts. I went to a classical art school where we would draw from live nude models for 8 hours a day.
How quickly you get used to nude bodies is kind of impressive, and the men in class didn’t turn into sex crazed animals when we had nude female models. The folks into penises didn’t become possessed with lust over the nude male models. Everything went professionally as it should. So people can in fact handle nude bodies with maturity when they want to.
Its just most people dont want to… for some reason.
If a trans person lives somewhere they legally cannot change their gender, does that mean they can legally go topless in a state where its illegal to bare breasts, because the State still recognizes them as men?
For real. I hate seeing dudes with their shirts off jogging down my block. Like, fuck off attention seeker. If your shirt makes you hotter to the point where it interferes with your exercising, you’re wearing the wrong item of clothing. Attention seeking and ill prepared.
Im sure some people are attention seeking to some degree but most people i know who go on neighborhood runs are just out doing their own thing and if anything are overly self conscious about showing off their bodies. I overheat incredibly quickly when I go for runs, and I frequently have to peel off my top layer and I’m still soaked. I can’t imagine I’m the only one. And I absolutely hate having any attention drawn to myself. Judgment from other people when I’m just out trying to get in a nice run outdoors sucks.
NGL, swimming with a shirt on is dope, no sunburn, im happy to admit im weird
Plus you can pull the neck of it up around your mouth, draw the neck hole tight enough to form a loose seal, and exhale into it to inflate it like a balloon :D and then your voice sounds neat and echoey in it! Wet fabric is not as permeable to air so it will actually stop it from escaping too fast.
The prohibition on public exposure of breasts by women and girls over 10 years old is now gone from the city code as of this week.
I never thought I’d be conflicted on this, because I am absolutely of the opinion that female breasts and nipples shouldn’t be treated as exclusively sexual body parts, especially since men have them too and we aren’t held to that standard.
But being confronted with the idea that 10-17 year old girls can now bare their breasts in public without restraint reminds me that treating female bodies as non-sexual is great as an ethos, but it is not reflective of reality, and that this specifically could be problematic.
But how to solve it? You can’t make it an 18+ only rule, or you’re further entrenching the idea that female breasts are exclusively sexual and adult, but if you let teens and tweens go topless, they will be sexualized / ogled / photographed by adult men, and that’s a bad precedent to set as acceptable. We usually treat photographs of underage female breasts as a form of CSAM, but can we still say that if we’re treating female breasts as non-sexual? This is an interesting new line to draw, given societal attitudes on adolescent nudity.
Regretfully, I believe that the true problem is men. The reason women have to cover their breasts is because they have to protect themselves from men. I’m all for bodily liberation and the de-sexualization of female existence, but we need an overhaul on our society’s attitudes towards women in general if we’re going to get there. Maybe bare breasts help get us there. Maybe girls need to learn the right way how to kick a man in the balls before they go topless.
So you feel that women should be arrested and prosecutable if their nipples are exposed?
That’s very misogynist. And no, you can’t argue for the law to “save the women” from all those perverts. Because the whole point of this is to free women from the bullshit laws that allows society to prosecute them while pulling double duty by effectively shaming their bodies.
Most women are not going to run around topless voluntarily. But, even if they did - say a group of girls or women decided to go skinny dipping or whatever at a lake, do you really believe they should go to jail for that?
Don’t mansplane and tell everyone these laws are for women’s own good, because they aren’t. Inventing this bizarre photographic scenario is just bizarre. It’s a fiction of your imagination and is a straw man argument.
You are correct that the true problem is men, but not how you think it is.
The true problem is not a problem, it’s the reality of human sexuality where most men and some women see female breasts as sexual most of time.
There are different situations where nudity of all kinds is not perceived sexually, that doesn’t affect the general rule that I shouldn’t run around the block all naked.
Saying it’s not equal because men too have nipples and those are not perceived as sexual is kinda strange. Let’s abolish pregnancy leaves then. Gender may be a social construct by now, sex is obviously not, and (most) humans are not hermaphrodites, so the rules can’t be the same.
This is a nothing burger of a subject frankly, we already know that real world doesn’t fit ideal ideas. If some ideal idea would describe the real world, then you’d only need that ideal idea to know it all and other information wouldn’t matter. Some religious fanatics are actually trying, destroying all the knowledge and art not coming from their holy book.
This doesn’t work, the real world is as complex as all the information in it. An action is good or bad only in a particular real situation.
Which is also why choosing a seemingly ideal enough principle and trying to fit it to everything, pretending that makes everyone equal, is a lie.
Women are allowed to walk around in sandals and no shoes at the beach despite foot fetishes being one of the most common paraphilias(behind breasts.)
You don’t see women getting accosted by guys who like feet because they have their toes out and it’s sexual to some guy nearby.
If dudes into feet can control themselves and be respectful then so can dudes into breasts when they are near a top less woman in public.
Comments like this are why I left reddit. This is a completely hinged and totally reasonable thought process that calls in a question, a lot of facets of the issue and ways them against each other appropriately. Maybe something more crazy would spark a bunch more replies but I totally like that Lemmy is a place that just lets people be normal.
You are inventing a problem that does not exist. Go take a walk where it is allowed and see how many girls are walking topless in the street.
It’s not necessarily because they don’t want to. It’s because in North American culture, it invites harassment. And then people like many of those posting in this thread will just say that they asked for it. So of fucking course women don’t go topless in public.
This is a western society problem, in tribes where women don’t cover their breasts the men are interested in other parts.
These fucking 304s walking around with their exposed ankles will never find a husband. How will they live without a husband to get a bank account for them? They’ll die miserable and destitute, and they’ll deserve it.
And I’m not an incel for saying so, because I have a kid! Checkmate, cucks!
To answer your question, it could be legal grey area because not all pictures depicting nudity are automatically considered pornographic, if you are speaking in terms of legal precedent regarding obscenity in the US.
To further muddy the issue, photographing other peoples kids is considered creepy by nearly everyone but it isn’t expressly illegal unless certain localities have specific statutes against it. There is no reasonable expectation of privacy in public places, so you have the potential situation where people are doing a presumptively legal activity in a public area where photographing that activity could be illegal depending on… intent?
Further, the courts have ruled that getting naked in public in the act of protesting something is part of protected speech. Presumably that applies to people of all ages and sexes as well but I doubt it has ever been tested.
We need to switch from our current American view that all nudity is sexual. If you see a someone naked doesn’t automatically make it sexual!
Are you male or female? In this case, it matters.
You see, males (for the most part) ARE attracted to breasts! It’s hard wired in our brains! Even gay friends have an obsession with boobs! We men LOVE boobs!!
If you want to go topless, I say: FUCK YEAH!!! But I feel like the disconnect comes from some people feeling violated if men stare. I’m sorry, but if there are boobs within eyeshot, I’m gonna be looking at them. I might try to hide my gaze (because I don’t want to make anyone uncomfortable), but I’m gonna be checking them out. As frequently as possible. Because…boobs!!
I’m sorry if this is not the kind of response you were looking for, but…BOOBS!!
On the other hand, I’m gay and breasts just don’t do anything for me. Now a guy with a decent set of pecs (but not ridiculously oversized), now we’re talking.
I’m a cis heterosexual male. I love all things about a women’s body, but I’m mature enough to not pop a boner just because I see a naked attractive woman. Like is that honestly hard for some healthy adult men?! Like if that woman and I are making sexual advances towards each, game on! Otherwise, what’s the big deal?
You are talking about culture not purely biological. Before clothing men weren’t walking around with erections all day. Same thing goes for many other cultures. The obsession with seeing anything naked is because we treat all nudity equally when it’s not. I see it as a personal control and character issue that is ingrained in western and Abrahamic religions areas.
I’m not saying I would be walking around with a boner. I’m saying I would want to look at naked breasts because I appreciate female bodies (in this case, specifically the chesticle region) no matter the shape. Are you shaming me for that?
Sure, if everyone walked around naked 24/7, it would probably be less of an issue. Do you believe that everyone walking around naked 24/7 is a viable option?
And also, you seriously believe that it is an issue ONLY with Western cultures and Abrahamic religions?! I’m starting to think you have never spoken to someone from China or Japan about their societal norms.
I agree. There’s such shame and disgust around the work of art that is the human body that really needs to be worked on.
People need to spend a little time at a nudist resort. They’d learn real quick that naked isn’t sexual.
Idk, I feel like for some people it is and for some it isn’t.
Like tbh I’d be worried about going to a nudist resort because (despite the trope that “only people you don’t want to see go there”) if I saw a woman I was attracted to I’d be worried that it would be…uh…evident, and that seems awkward and idk if it’s like, allowed to become tumescent even if it is an uncontrollable biological response (never stopped anyone from being mad it happened before, so…)
Idk, if I saw a woman walking down the street tits akimbo, I’d definitely be more inclined to think “ayy hell yeah” in my head than not, even if it happened daily, I can’t just stop being attracted to women, ya know?
Not that I think she shouldn’t, it’s her right and I wouldn’t complain about seeing them, but I can’t control my uncontrollable biological responses of “attraction” nor what happens naturally when “attracted,” if you will (though outside of nudist resorts, it’s hidable enough because clothes.)
Boiling it down to a purely biological process is oversimplified. Unless you are getting aroused whenever you see an attractive person, simply removing clothing isn’t/shouldn’t be a variable. You’ve been socially conditioned to think of all nudity as sexual. Spending time in a nudist area is somewhat about decoupling nudity and sex. (yes there are those that go for the sex, and it’s kinda the leading reason.) I think the point of being human is all about control over ones self and environment. Hell humans have spent more time on this earth walking around naked than clothed. Our current views on nudity and sexuality is relatively new due to social, political, religious, and practical reasons. (you don’t want someone nude preparing large amounts of food or people in hospitals being needlessly naked for obvious reasons.) Ultimately I’m saying if you are worried about being in a public nudity area and not being able to separate the other human from their body/attractiveness, it might be something you should explore. So you can be more open to others in general.
I’m gay. Personally, I’ve just never had trouble in situations with non-sexual nudity. I’ve been to nude beaches, about ten of my city’s World Naked Bike Ride, and of course locker rooms. Plenty of hot guys around, it’s hard not to notice, but never had the smallest issue with anything being evident. It feels like it’s largely based on the setting.
You could bring a towel and casually hold it in front of the happy area. Maybe people will know what’s going on but they also know you’re trying. We’re all human.
I feel like they might have been wise to wait for a less fucked up SCOTUS before taking this before it.
It’s not a bad idea, as it’s something that needs doing but it’s unlikely to be passed as a federal law, and they’re kind of right that it is unconstitutional.
But this is bad timing.
Edit: It might not be clear that I was referring to the three women who are avoiding to the article taking freedom of toplessness to the supreme court, where I think they’re unlikely to get support with the court’s current constellation. Losing the case now might make it harder to get a similar case before a more favourable constellation of the SCOTUS in the future, so it’s not very strategic in that sense.
Then it was rightfully pointed out that the article was old, and they had already lost the case before the SCOTUS (in it’s current constellation). So indeed bad timing.
Maybe I wasn’t clear. Or maybe there’s an unpopular opinion in there. Dunno. Cheers.
Shoot - I just read the article and saw the related links, but it didn’t occur to me that it’s completely out of date.
Did they ever make it to the SCOTUS? I guess not?
https://www.yahoo.com/news/u-supreme-court-refuses-free-144949699.html
Unfortunately, though the problem has gotten much worse in recent years, the theocratic leanings of the Supreme Court has been an issue for decades now.
The argument that this is gender discrimination seems obviously true to me so it’s shocking to me that we’re still living in a society where this type of government violence is still widely accepted. I just have to hope that we’ll eventually evolve beyond this type of Puritanism.
