I am looking to buy a new laptop, and I’d be interested in the Framework laptop. What I like are the replaceability and upgradeability of parts, and the fact it is not (to my knowledge) tied to any large corporation.
However, they are not available for Switzerland, and there is no telling if and when they will be. I’m not dead set on having replaceable parts, but I’d at least like to have something that would not cause issues if I were to install a Linux distrib’ on it (I had a Surface Pro, and had trouble setting up a Mint on it due to missing drivers for the keyboard). And helping smaller companies is a nice plus.
What would your recommendations be?
Honestly? I like the concept of the Frameworks (or, at least, the marketing schpiel) but increasingly feel like it is making MORE e-waste if anything.
Price wise? A 13th gen 13-inch specced out to approximately what Samsung is selling a 13 inch “Galaxy Book3” at is 1059 USD versus Best Buy’s 800 USD.
That in itself is not horrible but let’s say you were actually upgrading a previously purchased Framework and just buying a new i7-1360p cpu+mobo. That would be 1059+549 USD to upgrade versus 1600 USD to buy two laptops. So you are saving a grand total of negative 8 dollars over the course of two “laptops” assuming nothing else needed to get replaced or upgraded. AND that requires Framework to be around for 4-10 years AND to have not made significant changes that break backwards compatibility with parts.
But also? Anyone who builds their own PCs has the closet full of RAM and other parts they are totally going to use some day. Pretty sure I have some parts that predate the “core” nomenclature at Intel… And while you CAN spend more money to build up a small blade server or whatever out of your old mobos… yeah.
So instead of trade in programs or even dropping the old laptops off at the e-waste bin at Best Buy (which has like a 40% odds of actually going to an e-waste recycling facility) you just have stockpiles of e-waste because we are all fundamentally hoarders.
So my general recommendation? Look at the various electronics sellers in Switzerland and see what is on sale. Then do some googling to see how easy it is to upgrade storage or memory (ifixit.com is amazing for this) or… just spend a bit more money now to spec it out because odds are that will actually be cheaper than buying the extra parts separately. And if you have concerns over needing to repair this? Check what your credit card and country provide you warranty wise and consider buying an extended warranty from the laptop vendor.
Then install linux on that shit (not aware of a great resource to check compatibility but I find just googling works well).
Replacing a main board like in your example won’t be financially attractive for Framework laptops. With a new laptop you would also get a new and better screen.
Framework laptops shine in customizability and repairability.
What would you even do with the old motherboard and CPU? Could you even sell that?
I strongly encourage taking a look through ifixit’s website as a surprising number of laptops these days are repairable in that regard. I mean, I was doing a quick google to get an example of a laptop they have a guide on and was shocked to see fricking Microsoft Surface screens of alll things are front and center in their webstore.
As for customizability? I can definitely see use cases for that and there have been times I questioned just how much I would be willing to pay to get a headset jack on a modern laptop. But I very much agree with Wendell’s joke over at Level1Techs that those mostly exist for him to get bored during a meeting and disassemble his laptop. After the initial configuration you are unlikely to really touch them ever again (outside of niche cases).
And… years ago I learned the glory that is USB hubs. Dongles sucked. But even a 20 dollar anker hub/dongle turns one USB C hub into 4 As, an ethernet port, an audio jack, and an ethernet port. Having a dongle/hub dangling out is a bit annoying (but honestly a closer match to me plugging it in at my work desk) but… I don’t think it is 250 USD annoying.
Like I said, conceptually I love the concept of Framework but every time I math out what they actually bring to the table… yeah. And it increasingly feels like there is a strong marketing campaign (can’t imagine which investor contributed to that…) to misrepresent the modern day laptop market.
I will say that the best argument I have seen is that the “real” usb c ports are recessed and only accessed through the Totally Not Dongles. Which means it is a lot harder to break/bend a port that would require soldering to repair. I… don’t know if I agree that is a 250 USD feature and have concerns over the implications of the design on the mobo but that is the kind of thing that would be nice for more vendors to adopt. Even if the ports themselves aren’t “modular”, but just to have an easily swapped board/module in the event someone drops their laptop on a thumb drive a hundred times.
All excellent points. The trajectory of the current laptop market is the MacBook. One system on a chip with integrated RAM and an SSD. These are light, high performance, and long battery life. Repairability is difficult and upgrades harder. This type of laptop is good enough for most people and sells great.
Having a highly configurable machine is the opposite of the MacBook. There’s probably a market for the Framework laptop. It fully leans into being configurable and repairable. That gives the user a bigger sense of control. They don’t feel dependent on huge corporations. It’s not just a feeling either. Other companies don’t want their customers to repair or exchange anything on their laptops and will void the warranty if you do it. Framework is the opposite as it encourages their customers to assemble and replace parts themselves.
Customization has become huge in the PC market, especially among gamers. Framework is smart to try and fill this individualist niche. The marketing works well, just like you said. I find the programmable LED modules quite charming for example. The option to buy the laptop as a kit for me to assemble myself also sounds fun.
Empowerment is what the marketing sells to their customers. Few people really need this product, but many find it desirable.
I don’t know what Switzerland’s keyboard layout situation is like.
kagis
It sounds like Switzerland has a distinct keyboard layout from Germany or France.
It sounds like there’s a Swiss French keyboard layout, which is apparently also what Luxembourg uses:
This differs from the French layout:
https://kbdlayout.info/kbdfrna
There is also a Swiss German layout:
Which differs from the German layout:
If you’re looking for a laptop with those layouts, you might have a hard time finding one from a small company, since it’s going to need to be big enough to serve the Swiss market(s). Do you have a specific preference as to keyboard layout?
It’s true that keyboard layout is also a huge problem in Switzerland… I prefer fr_CH
I couldn’t find it when I glanced at their site earlier, but the Germany-based Tuxedo Computers, according to this Reddit post, does have or is supposed have a Swiss French layout option:
https://old.reddit.com/r/tuxedocomputers/comments/13voqru/swiss_french_keyboard_layout/
Hey there!
We will add CH-FR as option without extra cost to the configurator soon.
If you’re in a hurry please order with “custom layout” and point to this thread at the order comments box. We will refund the extra costs afterwards.
Hope that helps!
Someone else already mentioned them.
I have looked at Tuxedo before; they sell laptops specifically targeting the Linux market, so I expect that they’d have good compatibility, and they’re in Europe. I was interested mostly in that they were one of the very few vendors out there who made laptops with large batteries and Radeon-based GPUs (more-Linux-friendly). They’re a little pricey, but not, in my book, unreasonably so relative to the hardware that I was looking at.
That being said, I have never personally owned one of their laptops, so I cannot personally speak as to the experience, just that it’s a vendor that I’ve looked at.
If I were going to personally go get a laptop that runs Linux right now for myself, I’d probably be considering one of:
-
Framework. Here in the US, pricey, good repairability, good expandability, Linux-out-of-box (I’m not gonna use their out-of-box install, but it means that they’ve checked the hardware for decent compatibility). I doubt that these guys offer a Swiss French layout, though, so that’d probably kill it for you. They aren’t a huge company, and have been talking about taking on projects other than laptops, and I’d be a little concerned about them maybe going out of business or something.
-
Tuxedo. Germany-based, somewhat-pricey, large batteries, Linux-out-of-box. Radeon GPU hardware (if you want an off-CPU GPU). I couldn’t find a Swiss French option, but that Reddit post says that they have it.
-
Lenovo Thinkpad. China-based, not-as-expensive. Used to be a pricey IBM line. Notable for having a model with three physical trackpad buttons, a rare feature in 2024 and a major selling point for me. I like physical buttons and they’re rare now, and Linux benefits from having three rather than having to chord two or something. May not matter if you’re fine with virtual buttons. Strong history of Linux users using the thing. I’m much-less impressed with their current hardware than I once was, but it’s also cheaper than it once was, so…<shrugs> Reasonably good historically about expandability and case-opening; last one I needed Philips-head screws and a spudger tool, though no security bits. Physically durable, at least. Large-enough that I bet that you can get a Swiss French layout. Muted black business aesthetic without a lot of LEDs and shiny stuff, which I prefer. Batteries aren’t as large as they once were, but battery life is still good (though the T14 I’m typing this on has less-than-impressive screen brightness).
-
Dell XPS. Often listed as being comparable to Thinkpad, business-class laptops. Haven’t owned one.
Every laptop part is replaceable if you have enough free time
Old Thinkpad 😎
System76?
+1 for System76. Linux support by default and they ship to Switzerland
Just fyi, there plastic can be pretty bad. I have two of their laptops and they use very cheap plastic. Both have the hinges messed up. I can’t take them anywhere anymore.
Love popos and their desktops, but until they fix their laptops, I wouldn’t buy one of them again.
Yup, my Lemur has completely lost one hinge; I’ve actually got the case duct taped together at this point. Their customer support was really bad when i contacted them about it; they tried to get me to agree to charges before they even told me what they were charging me for: it took me days of escalation to get the answer that they were going to ship me a part but had no instructions or videos for installation and didn’t recommend end users do it. I’m actually looking at Framework now instead; I’m pretty done with System 76 at this point.
Yep here’s mine https://imgur.com/a/FS4d5e9
The plastic on the bottom that connects to the hinge is warped. If they put a tiny bit of metal like some dells it would help them.
