I still think someone explained lesbians to him and he got wildly confused.
Sometimes, you are genuinely insightfully funny, and sometimes what you post makes me want to vomit.
I appreciate that level of posting. It takes a very special kind of person to strike that balance.
I’m seriously considering getting an “Ohio eats pussy” patch as an Ohio lesbian
I could almost buy that given my feelings about the mental capacity of the poster child for failing upwards, but why would he think specifically Haitian immigrants are lesbians? You know, as opposed to “liberals” or “college girls” (to quote the terrible song from that episode of Bill Nye - did you learn gay in college?) or something…
Make all the “calls” you want. For someone to voluntarily resign under these circumstances, they need to feel guilt/shame. I’m not sure Vance is capable of either. He will not resign.
Cool. So fucking arrest him. He’s a public figure that knowingly and willingly endangered an entire population. Throw the book at his big fat eyelined face.
everyone
everyone didn’t believe it. those primed to buy conspiracy bullshit sure did tho.
huh.
I like conspiracies. They’re fun…this one was too far to fast of a stretch lol
I’m not sure there is anything illegal about making up these stories.
Edit: All these down votes are just wishful thinking. JD Vance is a piece of shit, but he hasn’t done anything illegal. (That’s not to say he hasn’t done anything wrong, because he totally has.)
Yelling “Fire!” in a crowded venue is not protected under Free Speech.
I know that’s the famous example, but you’re actually wrong. It’s only not protected if there’s no fire, the person yelling it believes there is no fire, and the person yelling it is doing so to cause a panic or imminent lawless action. Speech protections in the US are extremely broad, and most of the exact lines and contours have been defined in court, often in cases involving the ACLU, the KK, or both (specifically in the form of the ACLU defending the KKK, which is where many of the lines as regards protests were determined).
This isn’t even close to the other, actual stochastic terrorism they’ve done before.
If they were going to get charged for it, it shouldn’t be this one.
Now, whoever runs the Libertarian Party of New Hampshire account, that feels like an actual crime.
The cat thing should disqualify him as president because he’s blatantly lying. But it’s not a crime.
Name the criminal statute he should be charged with violating.
Agreed that he likely does not have a 1st amendment defense. But you still need a specific criminal statute to charge him with. I am unaware of any that he has likely violated with his xenophobic remarks
Demagoguery that targets a marginalized group is an American tradition. It is unlikely that he committed any crime
Its about time there is some accountability for spreading such falsehoods. Does Libel not apply to this, or any law? Come on, he endangered an entire group of his own constituents. They are legally here.
People need to call it what it is, as often as needed: stochastic terrorism
It’s very similar to the concept of blood libel I think, just directed at a different group than that term usually refers to. Which, given what that kind of thing historically has led to, is extremely concerning coming from such a public figure.
Unfortunately and with deep regrets, I think it’d be tough. From https://lipskylowe.com/when-are-false-accusations-of-racism-defamation/ there are four points:
False Statement about the target was stated as fact (not opinion)
Publication or communication of that statement to a third person
Fault on the part of the person making the statement amounting at least to negligence
Harm to the subject of the statement (damages)
Considering how hard he’s publicly pushed the story as a true fact, I think prongs 1 and 2 have been met. Alas, I can see 3 being not reached (he checked with his constituents who claimed the story was true and a judge accepts that as sufficient due diligence).
And 4 would be the hardest - how does one prove damages (like a dollar amount) and that they were specifically caused by his comments?
It’d be hard but I thinks a case can be made by analyzing violence against the Haitian community before and after the comments. We have a date for when it was said, which can serve as our starting point for after. It might not be the easiest but its definitely within reason. On top of it all, I’m tired of this and thats by design. To so obviously be trashing and damaging these communities, but due to the law still have believable excuses. Its bullshit. We know and so do the rubes.
Agreed. While not an expert, I feel like the bar for prong 3 has been lowered since I wrote the above - the original author has confessed to making it up, but Vance continued to promote the story after this and never officially retracted it.
Prong 4 still is tough - to have standing to sue you’d have to be someone who was harmed. So likely a member of the Haitian immigrant community in Springfield (of which I am not a member) would have to be the one suing, AND would have to be able to personally demonstrate damages.
Tough, but definitely possible within reason.
Considering what else is at stake, that person would need solid legal representation.
Assuming you aren’t a member either, the most you could do is lend support to folks out there, maybe reach out and see if anyone who has suffered is interested in a lawsuit and connect them to the right legal firms and such. Which is still enough to go a long way.
This fucking lie ended a conversation (that started about plumbing of all things!) between myself and my father with me screaming at him for being racist and him hanging up on me saying “Enjoy your fucking liberal life. Im hanging up now. Love you. Bye.”
As a rule, I do NOT speak politics with my family because theyre HUGE MAGAts and Im the exact opposite. But my father is one who HAS to bait me. He just…its in his fucking DNA code or something. And usually I grit my teeth through it, but I couldnt this time.
Ughhhhh this pisses me off so much because I really thought that he would snort and roll his eyes at THIS lie at least. But no. He unironically believes this shit. Its fucking dangerous.
Yeah, therapists have noted a sharp upward trend of people dealing with politically driven grief. Basically, people separating from their family members due to political differences. And it’s almost universally from liberal people cutting off their Trump-crazed parents.
This, I believe 100%. I just got assigned a new therapist and have only had one session with them so far. However, I know for a fact that this is going to be a massive topic that I need to unpack with them.
It sucks because you just know all these parents will blame “the liberal media influencing the snowflake younger generation”, rather than having any introspection.
I fear its going to make Boomers/Gen X even more radicalized than they already are, and double down on reforming schools to suit the Christian narrative.
Oh. I have relatives in the USA. Jewish and the older generation is sadly non-critical. Last family call ended where my uncle (strictly speaking, my mom’s uncle, son of my grandma’s older sister) dropped a phrase of “having to vote for someone who’ll support Israel” in such a worried tone, that I fscking couldn’t hold it. I mean, if my grandma wouldn’t try to shut me up with her Israel worship bullshit (she has always been, ahem, simple-minded and loud, and now she’s also of the age where people do not preserve a lot), could have gone better.
Sorry man. My fam and I went separate ways about a year ago due to this stuff. It’s a sickness spread by a for profit entity which is the GOP. Doesn’t feel good at all, but things got so ugly that the silence between us now is a welcome form of peace at least.
Im sorry you went through that, but Im glad you found peace. It sucks because I’m being pushed to consider going this exact route, so I know the pain/apprehension that went into your decision. Its a shitty place to be, and I have mad respect for you putting yourself first.
It really sucks, because I dont hate them, I hate their politics and their inability to respect boundaries, but I know theyll never see it that way. They’ll see it as me breaking up the family because liberals are too sensitive or whatever.
I’ve been dealing with this for a while now. Family kicked me out of the house for supporting Bernie Sanders at one point. It sucks, because I love them very much, but they’re Racist with a capital R and die-hard republicans who worship drumpf. Every time we talked they would bait me with their BS, and even when we’re NOT talking about politics, it seems every gap in conversation is punctuated with all the vile things they’re trying not to say.
My therapist had some great advice. Said that if I value a relationship with them, then the price for having that relationship is never discussing politics.
I’m willing to pay that price, so I told them not to bring it up anymore, and I’ll do the same. It’s working for the most part, though that doesn’t stop other issues from coming up. But hey, that’s life! Wouldn’t be relatives if they didn’t frustrate you endlessly, I guess?
Friend, it’s really not worth it. You can cut out family members that insist on drama but otherwise you can just keep radio silence on topics that aren’t mutually interesting.
People can change their minds but it isn’t ever anyone outside forcing that change… significant changes always come from internal realizations.
Just enjoy your life and keep your sanity - I’m sorry you were saddled with a family deeply entrenched in the MAGA crazy.
Thank you, I appreciate it. We’re pretty low contact as I live across the country, so I only really talk to him on holidays/birthdays to begin with, but this was an odd one-off.
I mostly really stay in contact at all because my brother has 2 babies, and the entire family is conservative (to the point that theyre considering home schooling the kiddos), and Im worried theyll never get ANY outside influence if my husband and I dont make an effort.
Its probably a worthless effort, because mentally I can only handle going home every year or so (and I make it as close to a 72 hr trip as possible), but I just feel like Im abandoning them completely if I cut everyone off now.
I refuse to talk politics with my family, regardless of who they endorse. It’s not worth the arguments.
Yeah, I don’t even like talking politics with people I agree with. My parents are lifelong Democrats and despise Trump, but they are absolutely obsessed with him in the same way that pro wrestling fans are obsessed with the latest heel. They just can’t stop talking about him and whatever his latest line of bullshit is. Whereas my only hope for sanity is to tune this shit out as much as I possibly can.
I refuse to talk any subject which has multiple potential perspectives on with my dad. Even if I agree with him he makes me feel shit. That boomer self righteousness is repulsive.
I recommend disengaging immediately whenever they start to talk about politics. Hang up the phone, leave the room, etc. Tell them you won’t discuss politics with them, but other than that, don’t say a single word to them on any other topic until they agree to quit doing it. Rinse and repeat.
