I’ve often pondered about how Vulcans view gender and sexuality.
I think pre-Surak/logic, they may have demonstrated homophobia and transphobia, but modern Vulcan Society would probably be chill with it under the reasoning that discrimination would reduce a person’s efficacy as a functional member of Vulcan Society. For instance, given a choice between allowing a person to contribute verses driving them to the brink of suicide, Vulcans would probably tend to lean towards the first option.
There could very well still be stigma (Vulcans are far from a perfect society; some may have views that it is illogical to have a romantic relationship without a child), but it’s dampened by the logic from the previous paragraph.
There’s also the Pon Farr to keep in mind. Not only would it be hard to fight a person in the Ponn Farr, but also you’d literally be killing them by trying to prevent expression of their orientation.
Yeah, I agree that Vulcans would probably be naturally accepting of varied gender identification and presentation, and of varied sexual orientations. Probably similar to how the majority of the neurodiverse (especially autistic) communities among humans are accepting of gender and sexuality variations.
It strikes me as highly illogical to insist that anyone else has a better sense of what a person’s sexual orientation or gender identity is than the individual themselves. If they say “I identify with X pronouns” then obviously it is illogical to use Y pronouns when referring to that person. If they say, “I’m attracted to people like this” then it’s illogical to insist that they should instead be attracted to a different subset of people. If they express a preference for Z gender presentation, it’s illogical to insist they should prefer otherwise.
Gendered expectations are illogical relics of ancient human social structure anyway, so Vulcan society probably wouldn’t have as many of those to begin with, if any at all. Even our emotionally encumbered human cultures in the 21st century are beginning to wonder at how pointlessly gendered things have been for us.
some may have views that it is illogical to have a romantic relationship without a child
I don’t see why it would be logical to posit that the potential for creating offspring is a necessary component of relationships. There are all manner of motivations for intimate bonding that have nothing to do with whether biological reproduction occurs. Also, adoption exists.
Arguably, the very concept of romance being a core component of relationships would be viewed by Vulcans as an illogical and unnecessary condition. I imagine the vast majority of Vulcan society would be aromantic by default.
There’s a gay Vulcan character in the New Frontier book series (U.S.S. Excalibur). From what I recall, there were no social issues but the guy’s father disapproved due to “a waste of good genetic material” :-)
a waste of good genetic material
It’s worth comparing this perspective to Spock’s view in TWoK that Kirk not fulfilling his “first, best destiny” as a starship captain is also a “waste of material”. In other words, Vulcans place value on a person expressing their truest and best self. That would jibe with the idea that Vulcan society would not place artificial barriers to people expressing their gender and sexual identity, since doing so would be viewed as a similar “waste of material”.
My opinion, since modern Vulcans suppress their emotions, the only logical reason to have a mate is procreation. So the vast majority of society is “straight” as a result of that logic.
At the same time, I would argue that it is an illogical activity to exclude someone of value to society based on who they have chosen to mate with. Logically, unless their choice of mate somehow affects their job/employment/task (whatever you want to call it), I don’t see a logical reason why their choice in a mate would matter to anyone else.
The only logical argument I can find in all of this, is that choosing a mate based on feeling/preference, instead of logic, might demonstrate that an individual is more emotional and therefore less logical. And I think we all know how Vulcans feel about things that are not logical and/or things that act upon their feelings…
Personally, I don’t see that having a preference in a mate, even one that steps outside the heteronormative, is a flaw in their logic. If you enjoy your time with your mate, and that makes you a better, more productive individual, then I fail to see a problem.
The only logical argument I can find in all of this, is that choosing a mate based on feeling/preference, instead of logic, might demonstrate that an individual is more emotional and therefore less logical. And I think we all know how Vulcans feel about things that are not logical and/or things that act upon their feelings…
Personally, I don’t see that having a preference in a mate, even one that steps outside the heteronormative, is a flaw in their logic. If you enjoy your time with your mate, and that makes you a better, more productive individual, then I fail to see a problem.
I don’t see any evidence that Vulcans don’t completely agree with your own personal stance here.
Vulcans clearly do act upon personal values, desires, preferences, etc, that we as humans would view as emotional responses. “I want [a cookie/you to live long and prosper/to have galactic peace/to solve this math equation/etc]” is, for a human, a statement inherently rooted in an emotional assessment. The Vulcans themselves, however, clearly do not view these things as emotional expression.
We see partnerships which don’t produce children, and despite Vulcans having no filter whatsoever when it comes to criticizing others for being “illogical”, nobody seems to have anything to say to Sarek for apparently having no children with his last wife Perrin. When Tuvok is separated from his wife, he acknowledges on multiple occasions that he misses her because he wants to be able to spend time with her; he certainly doesn’t bemoan the missed opportunity to fulfill a societal obligation to pop out more babies.
We don’t have explicit counterfactuals here, but we all know that ultimately comes down to Doylist reasons. There’s no reason we should assume that Vulcan society shares Rick Berman’s personal sense of morality in this area.
Fair enough.
There are certainly aspects of desire that can be viewed as non-emotional. Not even just in sexual desire, but in general. Like, “I want a cookie” doesn’t have to be an emotionally driven sentiment. Having want/desire does not necessarily mean an emotional drive for that thing.
Also, there are many ways to miss someone. If I were separated from my partner for a long period of time, her presence would be missed. Beyond the obvious physical intimacy, having someone around to talk with that I trust and value the opinion of; and someone I can share humerus stories with, or memes/quips that I heard or made. Or simply the knowledge of having them near in case I need assistance in any capacity. It’s a comfort.
There’s more to it than just intimacy, and emotion; though, being an inherently emotional human, I recognise those aspects in myself as well.
I admire the Vulcans. I think they’re on to something.
Could they even biologically survive homosexual Pon Farr? No wait, they could because they have shown them to satisfy themselves in a holodeck on Voyager. Under the circumstances, it should have been logical for Tuvok and Vorik to have made sweet, sweet love.
Another thing I didn’t initially think about is the Federation’s potentially great capability for transitioning people, considering how relatively simple it was for Bashir to transition Quark to being female then back to male.
