I’ve often pondered about how Vulcans view gender and sexuality.
I think pre-Surak/logic, they may have demonstrated homophobia and transphobia, but modern Vulcan Society would probably be chill with it under the reasoning that discrimination would reduce a person’s efficacy as a functional member of Vulcan Society. For instance, given a choice between allowing a person to contribute verses driving them to the brink of suicide, Vulcans would probably tend to lean towards the first option.
There could very well still be stigma (Vulcans are far from a perfect society; some may have views that it is illogical to have a romantic relationship without a child), but it’s dampened by the logic from the previous paragraph.
There’s also the Pon Farr to keep in mind. Not only would it be hard to fight a person in the Ponn Farr, but also you’d literally be killing them by trying to prevent expression of their orientation.
Ice cold logic.
Reproductive organs are for reproducing and reproducing only. If you have a penis you’re a male of the species, if you have a vagina you’re a female of the species. Anything else is a genetic abnormality that should be fixed.
There’s no room for emotion, no room to feel like you’re in the wrong body or to identify as something other than what you physically present. This social weight is compounded in the Kelvin timeline where there are so few Vulcans left they must mate full-time just to prevent extinction.
I think it would be an interesting story to have a half Vulcan, half Human struggle with dysphoric emotions boiling beneath their taught logical exterior, or a full Vulcan that doesn’t understand why they have no desire (or actual regret) to Pon Farr with their mate.
But don’t take existing characters and rough them up because you’re bored with them. Don’t take Spock and turn him into a depressed, bearded neurodivergent with 20 siblings. Make new characters that I can care just as much about. Even in the sterile Vulcan society there is opportunity to tell very human, very emotion-driven stories about one’s own identity.
Despite the storytelling potential, I’d think that the Pon Farr would put an automatic limit on any homophobia the Vulcans have, as once again, denying someone would have lethal consequences.
I don’t recall mentioning homophobia.
I also disagree that the inherent disregard of “illogical” alternative relationships or identities would be rooted in hate. “Hate is illogical.”
Though the idea that there is a Vulcan somewhere who is harboring hateful emotions towards Vulcans who identify that way would be yet another potential story to tell. Something akin to the Enterprise episode Fusion.
Reproductive organs are for reproducing and reproducing only. If you have a penis you’re a male of the species, if you have a vagina you’re a female of the species. Anything else is a genetic abnormality that should be fixed.
There’s no room for emotion, no room to feel like you’re in the wrong body or to identify as something other than what you physically present.
I see little grounds for this assessment.
Vulcans not only recognize the immense complexity of the mind, but they also recognize people have a soul (their Katra). Why would it be “ice cold logic” to decide that the physical body, not the mind or soul, determines what a person truly is? Especially in a technological context where elaborate reconstructive surgeries are trivially easy.
Vulcans have preferences, desires, and needs that we would describe as emotionally driven. Vulcans clearly do not consider these to be emotional in nature. Despite practicing arranged marriages, the actions of those Vulcans whose lives we see into (Spock, T’Pring, Sarek, T’Pol, etc) clearly show that they are not strictly beholden to such arrangements, and value forming romantic partnerships with people they are attracted to. Likewise, the need to occupy the correct type of body, and by referred to by the correct name and correct terms, would surely be understood and accepted without difficulty.
Unless you’re referencing a retcon that’s been made to lore recently, we are definitely watching completely different shows.
In Star Trek, it’s been long established that Vulcan society is built around the complete suppression of emotion. The Vulcans do have emotions, they just nearly always choose to ignore them. Creating a society of people that think and act strictly on logic.
Don’t mistaken disregard for acceptance or understanding. If a Vulcan is gay or trans… the rest of the Vulcan people have nothing to say about it and just go about their lives (Which is sadly a far better response than many present-day Humans). And that’s precisely the point of my comment.
That (non)response leaves those Vulcans without acknowledgement of what they are and trapped in a society constructed around heteronormalcy. They may find one another and form groups, but still be expected to take heterosexual mates and be part of a “logical” family structure.
Katra is how Vulcans rationalize the different opinions/desires/preferences each Vulcan has and just lumps them all into what must be one’s “soul”, rather than acknowledge the emotional identity such things emerge from. The training computer on Vulcan only asks Spock how he feels because it knows he’s half-human. No other reason, and just that one single aside in a long and elaborate test.
Also, don’t mistaken my stating these observations as some kind of approval of such behavior. Vulcans exist in Star Trek to be a reflection of one aspect of humanity, amplified for the purpose of aspirational storytelling. But I do like seeing stories that take established paradigms and turn them on their head or criticize their obvious flaws.
That (non)response leaves those Vulcans without acknowledgement of what they are and trapped in a society constructed around heteronormalcy. They may find one another and form groups, but still be expected to take heterosexual mates and be part of a “logical” family structure.
Can you cite any evidence of this? 90s Trek presents all societies as relatively heteronormative because it was the 90s and Rick Berman was a homophobe, but I see little evidence that Vulcans society should be considered any more or less heteronormative than Humans, Klingons, etc. Nor can I recall evidence that the Vulcans would consider one man and one woman to be the singular “logical” family structure.
Katra is how Vulcans rationalize the different opinions/desires/preferences each Vulcan has and just lumps them all into what must be one’s “soul”, rather than acknowledge the emotional identity such things emerge from.
Likewise, I’d like to know where this description of Katras as a catchall cause for personal preference is stated.
Why do they have hair on the top of their ear?
Could they even biologically survive homosexual Pon Farr? No wait, they could because they have shown them to satisfy themselves in a holodeck on Voyager. Under the circumstances, it should have been logical for Tuvok and Vorik to have made sweet, sweet love.
There’s a gay Vulcan character in the New Frontier book series (U.S.S. Excalibur). From what I recall, there were no social issues but the guy’s father disapproved due to “a waste of good genetic material” :-)
a waste of good genetic material
It’s worth comparing this perspective to Spock’s view in TWoK that Kirk not fulfilling his “first, best destiny” as a starship captain is also a “waste of material”. In other words, Vulcans place value on a person expressing their truest and best self. That would jibe with the idea that Vulcan society would not place artificial barriers to people expressing their gender and sexual identity, since doing so would be viewed as a similar “waste of material”.
Another thing I didn’t initially think about is the Federation’s potentially great capability for transitioning people, considering how relatively simple it was for Bashir to transition Quark to being female then back to male.
