EE is advising parents that children under 11 should be given old-fashioned brick or “dumb” phones that only allow them to call or text instead.
That sounds ridiculous. An 11-year-old is, what, a fifth-grader in the US?
If they have access to a computer or something in addition to their phone, okay, maybe. But for a lot of young people in 2024, their smartphone is their sophisticated electronic device. Maybe they tack on a keyboard or whatnot. But take that away, and they don’t have a computer to use. A computer is just too essential of a tool to not let someone learn.
Kids used to veg out in front of the TV, where material is generally not all that fantastic and the device is noninteractive. I think that it’s great that smartphones are replacing that.
I was programming when I was in first grade. I was doing computer graphics and word processing somewhere around there. Those are important skillsets to have. I made use of those. You want kids to pick those up. You do not want to push those back. I’d get a computer of whatever form into their hands at the earliest point that they can avoid destroying it.
If your concern is that you want to restrict access to pornography or something, okay, fine, whatever, set up content filtering. I think that they’re probably going to get at it anyway. But that does not entail not permitting access to the computing device. That’s a restriction on access to the Internet.
In May this year, MPs on the education committee urged the government to consider a total ban on smartphones for the under-16s and a statutory ban on mobile-phone use in schools as part of a crackdown on screen time for children.
That’d be, what, up to high school before you have one? And that’s not “I have parents who want that”, but outright “the government doesn’t let anyone do that”.
Wikipedia. Google Maps. The store of knowledge available from search engines. I use those all the time. You want to cut them off from that?
I read and certainly write way more text than I did in the pre-Internet era. Do you want kids reading and writing less?
I mean, I’m just boggled.
set up content filtering
Then kids will just work around it.
I personally refuse to set up content filtering. My state passed a law requiring ID to view porn and use SM, and I’m willing to set up a VPN on my WiFi to work around that because I detest content filtering. I’d much rather have zero filtering and track what websites are visited so I can react appropriately (i.e. if the kid is watching porn, they probably need some proper sex ed and something to occupy their time).
That’s a restriction on access to the Internet.
Sure, and I’m 100% willing to take that away from them.
My policy is, if I trust you, I trust you to not be supervised. If I don’t trust you, I don’t trust you at all. So either you get complete access, or you get no access.
That’s how I’m planning to handle phones as well. They’ll get a loaner phone when they need it, and if they earn my trust with that, they’ll get their own. If they violate my trust, they lose the phone, including the loaner. Simple as that.
the government doesn’t let anyone do that
Yeah, that’s not cool at all, the government shouldn’t tell me how I can raise my kids.
That said, kids can still access the internet at school and at libraries, just like I did as a kid. Or they can ask to borrow the family computer. If I choose to restrict my child’s access to the internet, that should 100% be my prerogative, as should me deciding to give my child a smart phone.
Hey kid, you finished your vegetables and cleaned your room, here’s the car keys. Right pedal is gas and… ah, you’ll figure it out. Be home by 10.
Also lol @ family computer.
Also lol @ family computer.
? The “family computer” is one of my computers (I have a laptop and a desktop, they choose) that’s in an open space. I unlock it for them (usually from my phone), tell them what they are allowed to do and how long they can use it, and then let them on it with pretty much no supervision and no filtering/tracking. I don’t look at their browsing history (I trust them), but if I find out they were breaking the rules, they lose that privilege. We’ve only had a couple of incidents (usually they’re watching stupid YouTube videos we don’t like), but they’ve largely done a good job of sticking to our rules, and I’ll always explain why those rules exist. They earn computer time by reading (15 min for every 30 min they read), and they keep track of their own time (again, we don’t track it, but they will get grounded from the computer if they lie).
I want them to experiment with things as much as possible, but within some safety guidelines. If they’re going to stumble on something bad, I want them to do it while they’re young enough to tell me about it. IMO, that’s the best way for them to learn proper boundaries. For example, my kid told me about some cool jumps at the park someone made, so I went over there with them, we rode on a few, and then I told them they’re totally fine to come back, but that one jump didn’t look safe and they should avoid it. Now I let them go pretty much whenever they want with their friends without me or anyone else watching, provided they don’t have other obligations. If they get hurt, we live a couple blocks away, so they can get home, or if someone is seriously hurt, they can send someone. My kids are pretty careful though, so chances are they would be the ones finding help.
My level of supervision scales with the danger. My kids know where they’re allowed and not allowed to go, and they know they’ll lose their privileges if I find out they went somewhere they’re not allowed to go. I have taken away my kid’s bike for that (took off the front wheel and hid it), so they know I’m serious. But they also know I’m reasonable, and if they want to expand where they’re allowed to go, they talk to me and we discuss any relevant safety concerns I have (e.g. crossing busy roads, knowing directions, etc).
I try to give them more freedom than they’re comfortable with, but not so much that they’ll get into serious trouble so they set their own boundaries. My goal here isn’t to keep them safe in the short-term, but to teach them to to make reasonable boundaries to keep them safe in the long term.
I was programming when I was in first grade. I was doing computer graphics and word processing somewhere around there. Those are important skillsets to have. I made use of those. You want kids to pick those up. You do not want to push those back. I’d get a computer of whatever form into their hands at the earliest point that they can avoid destroying it.
Most kids aren’t improving their skillsets. They definitely aren’t programming on cell phones. I am a programmer. I have code editors that I paid for on my phone at all times. I’ve used them like 5 times at most.
Social media and misinformation is damaging for everyone but more so for children. Social media is what kids are mostly doing.
I agree that there can positives for using a cell phone. Their are educational software but most kids aren’t doing that.
Even if they are only figuring out how to ignore clickbait, they are improving their skill sets.
Social media is “damaging”, in the same way that all social activities are “damaging”. The solution is not isolation, but early exposure. The last kid to get a phone is the one at greatest social disadvantage.
Firm disagree. Social media, or more specifically algorithmic short form content these days, is extremely damaging. It’s different from anything that’s come before and has nothing to do with connecting with your peers.
I graduated high-school in 2009 so I saw the beginning of popularized social media. Very few gained anything from participating in it. Mostly people who were good at marketing and building a following benefited.
Wikipedia. Google Maps. The store of knowledge available from search engines. I use those all the time. You want to cut them off from that?
That’s a bit overdramatic. Most kids have a laptop for schoolwork these days. I personally didn’t get a smartphone until I started university, got a Samsung S7 then. I had no issues accessing any of those sources. These days I have a comp sci masters degree, so it definitely didn’t “stunt” me in any way.
I read and certainly write way more text than I did in the pre-Internet era. Do you want kids reading and writing less?
Kids reading and writing skills appear to have been declining ever since the rise of the smartphone, so I doubt they’re reading anything of sufficient quality to hone those skills a bit.
Schools here have recently mostly banned smartphones, and the kids seem happier for it and their grades and concentration in school is improving. Sound like positives to me.
Smartphones won’t help you learn how computers work. They are dumbed down devices, designed to keep you on social media while maximizing exposure to ads. These things are way worse than TVs.
Tasker says you’re wrong.
The kid who has done nothing more than install games from the play store is miles ahead of his phone-less peers.
Agree with your points on having a pocked PC to hack with, the issue here is then with mobile and their OS makers which mindbogglingly have omitted to design a working and hardly hackable “children account mode”, since what is damaging here is not what they can fiddle within their devices, nor certainly what they can read from wikipedia, but rather the unfiltered and unaccountable exposure to a profiling oriented social media storm which even adults fatigue to cope with.
I’m sure it isn’t unheard of OSes having a hardware locked managed kiosk mode, because that is what smartphones basically need.
Make parents less entitled. Problem solved.
Yes, don’t do it. It’s a bad idea. Phones are addicting and one day when we all realize this, we will have laws to prevent it.
Because all of our current laws work so well at preventing access to addictive things. /s
If anyone in the future ends up going to prison or losing custody of their children because they bought them a cellphone or let them use social media, we will have officially failed as a society. That is dystopian as all hell.
It is not the government’s place to parent people’s children for them, much less the dysfunctional government we have.
Please don’t give kids smartphones period. A smart watch is far less addictive and just as valuable to parents and kids (parents can track location, kids can still make phone calls and txt.) other suggestions are a dumb phone (think t9 txting), or just let them go phoneless.
I don’t think going phoneless would be a great idea because emergencies happen and people need to communicate but society would probably be better if kids weren’t glued to smartphone apps and social media from a young age. The smart watch or dumb phone idea makes sense to me though.
Those watches with tracking built in are certainly popular in my area, but I absolutely refuse to use it. Kidnapping just isn’t a thing (the majority of kidnappings is by a trusted family member/friend), and I don’t think kids should get accustomed to someone constantly looking over their shoulder. I’ve gotten my kids “smart” watches (fun Minecraft watches with built-in games and whatnot), and there’s no tracking or internet access whatsoever.
If kids need to call, they can ask a trusted adult to borrow a phone. If I trust my kid, they can borrow my spare. Kids don’t need a phone of their own until they can at least get around on their own (e.g. driver’s license or parental permission to leave the neighborhood on their own), and for me, that’s like 14yo. I have a 10yo, and there’s no way I’m giving them a phone now or in the next year. They’re really responsible, but they don’t need it at all.
Curious, what smart(-ish) watches did you get? Product recommendations appropriate in this discussion imho
This Minecraft watch. There’s no network access whatsoever, but it feels like a smart watch with a camera, apps, games, etc. They really liked it, but it seems to not be very durable, and battery life is pretty poor (like a day or so). But if your kids want to feel like having a smart watch, but you don’t want to have all of the internet access stuff, I think it’s pretty good.
Don’t they require smart phones to work though? All the ones I have had are all just BT devices which require a phone to do anything beyond tell the time
My Samsung watch works without a phone on Google Fi network. Watches get a free line.
Anyone have a recommendation for a decent kids smartwatch with cell service? I got my son a Garmin Bounce and the text and the service sucked so we returned it.
You can find older Apple Watches for fairly cheap, I paid 10 bucks a month on T-Mobile for just the watch plan.
You would need to have an iPhone in order to manage it but you can manage a watch for a kid that way. They have school mode for them so it just acts as a watch with emergency contact action at school.
I will argue smartphones or any electronic is not the problem. The problem is lazy parents.
My kids all have had phones since before 10 and they’re all well adjusted but to be clear I monitor their usage and I check in with my kids regularly.
I cannot hold back society or technology at the fear of my kids being left behind. What I can do is help them navigate both as they grow.
I love how quick we are to lay the blame anywhere but parents.
This is an extremely reactionary take. I hear what you are saying but I draw the line as delusional and irresponsible unless you apply that to pretty much all parents that don’t completely smother their children.
We make mistakes as we grow. We lie. We get hurt. Technology is always Pandora’s box. I’d argue we have better knowledge of our kids now than we ever used to and stats show the world is safer now than it has ever been.
If you live in fear you will form your decisions from a place of fear.
This is actually a good take. Kids aren’t miniature adults, they’re kids. They’re not helpless or useless, but neither are they fully morally and emotionally developed. They need guidance. Plenty of adults can’t responsibly handle internet access. I survived early onilne porn and gore and social media, but it’s not like any of it benefited me in a meaningful way.
Some folks have an attitude that’s like “I touched hot stoves and I learned better”, but that’s far from ideal.
I strongly believe that a large part of the reason China is so strict with underage phone and game restrictions is because the parents are at work for too long to do any real parenting. Ideally parents should be the ones making those choices and actually monitoring their kids, but since I don’t have kids I can’t really say for myself.
