For anyone wondering, Deutschland, Duitsland and Tyskland all have the same latin root “theodiscus” that became “deutsch”. “Allemagne” derives from a germanic tribe, the “Alemanni” who lived in modern day Germany and bordered modern day france. Niemcy and Nemetorszag both stem from old slavic “nem” (or something similar) meaning “mute”. They called the Germanic tribes they interacted with mute because they couldn’t understand them. “Saksa” is derived from the German region “Saxony”.
Please correct me in case i got something wrong.
The Latin root theodiscus is actually just the latinised form of the Old High German thiutisk from Indo-European teuta and means “people”. Similarly, Alemanni means “all men”. The Saxons were named after their typical sword or fighting knive, the Seax or Sax. It’s still discussed where the term “German” originates from.
The Saxons were named after their typical sword or fighting knive, the Seax or Sax.
There’s also a possibility the name is related to “settling”, and the knife then probably named after the tribe.
That’s a common misconception, they are actually named after the famous jazz instrument the saxophone.
I thought German means spearman. Because some tribes fighted with the „Ger“, a spear or some special spear(?). Or is this only a theory?
Lots of things are possible, fewer are likely, even fewer attested, even fewer attested without doubt.
Though it’d have a special irony to it: Some Roman asking a bunch of probably Austro-Bavarian or Alemanic warriors “who are you” and getting the answer “Germannen” – “spear men”. Were Italy an Island they would’ve said “sailors”.
Probably more likely than Romans observing those tribes, noting more or less bog-standard javelins, not exactly a rare or particularly notable technology, and saying “hey let’s ask them what they call javelins and add a -man after that for no apparent reason”. Even if they specialised their tactics etc. around those spears would you call Greeks “Phalanx people”?
According to German Wikipedia, this theory, Germans are men with a Ger, is longer up to date.
For good measure, in Arabic, Niemcy (actually “Namsa”) is what we call Austria. Germany is “Almania”, same as in French.
Of course, we have as many curveballs as you could want for European place names. Like Venice. Somehow we ended up with “Al Bunduqiya” for Venice. Have fun with that one.
Just to add one more sidenote: France is of course named after the Franks, a German people who lived next door to the Alemanni and the Saxons.
Still do, Franken is on the one hand a part of Bavaria very insistent on not actually being Bavarian (and they’re right), OTOH a dialect continuum reaching over the Ruhr area up to Flanders and Holland.
Charlemagne was a prince of Austrasia, just another guy in a long dynasty of conquerors but notably the one to conquer Rome (and conversion-by-genocide of the Saxons). Also a lot more Gauls back in the day in France before they went all national state and suppressed minority languages in favour of sounding more Roman.
Okay then, where’d Rome come up with it? Oh, “the land of the Germani,” but scholars are divided on the origin of Germani. Possibly from Celt gair, “neighbor.” Or maybe from a few other sources.
The word germ also comes from Latin, “sprout” but I’m not seeing anything like “people who sprout” or “from the land of sprouting seeds” or anything else to connect them at all. It’s more like ger+man.
Niemcy and Nemetorszag both stem from old slavic “nem” (or something similar) meaning “mute”.
More precisely, the first one is from Proto-Slavic root *něm- (“mute”) and suffix *-ьcь (“person with that characteristic”); ě was not quite the same sound as e, so linguists mark it with the haček, just as it is marked in Czech to this day. In modern languages the nationality is called: Ru. nemec, Pol. Niemiec, Cro. Nijemac… But the country itself is called Ru. Germanija (from Latin), Pol. Niemcy (literally plural “Germans”), Cro. Njemačka (actually a feminine adjective, taken from the syntagm “Njemačka zemlja” = “German land”).
The Hungarian name is a combination of the Slavic loaned *němьcь > “német” (“German”) and “ország” (“land”): Németország.
the “Alemanni” who lived in modern day Germany and bordered modern day france.
Alemans still live in Baden-Württemberg, parts of Bavaria, Switzerland and I think there’s also a splattering in Austria. Basically, High Germans which aren’t Austro-Bavarian (same culture, different kingdoms) are Alemans.
“Saksa” is derived from the German region “Saxony”.
That one can be a bit misleading: The modern state of Saxony has nothing to do with the Saxon tribe, the place the title was applied to slowly drifted over the ages. They’re much more related to Prussians and Thuringians and even Franks, going all the way over to Flanders and Holland, than Saxons proper. (Holland, not Netherlands).
Here’s a rough splotch of where Old Saxon was spoken, which you can consider “core Saxony”. At least linguistics-wise it spread quite a bit especially during the days of the Hanse (becoming a minority language as far up as Estonia), but it definitely stops before arriving at a place where “goose meat” means “could you please”. Utter gibberish.
I’m guessing saksa is more like the others and based on the Saxon people that once lived there rather than the modern region named for the same
i didn’t mean to imply they weren’t, just that the name was derived from the people not the region.
This is why I think Turkey’s insistence it be called “Türkiye” in English is dumb. English doesn’t use umlauts, most English speakers can’t even pronounce “ü” properly. English doesn’t use “iye” sounds. They should be happy that the country is more-or-less pronounced the way it sounds in Turkish.
I mean, look at some of Turkey’s neighbours. Georgia, pronounced “sakartvelo” by the locals. Armenia, called “Hayastan” by the people who live there. Greece, called “Elláda” by people who speak Greek (sorry, speak “elliniká”).
People aren’t speaking your language when they’re talking about your country, they’re speaking their own language, and “Turkey” is about as close as English gets to “Türkiye”
They probably just want people to stop confusing their country for a bird.
The bird got its name from the Turks. If they keep bitching ill start calling them foot rests.
Oh, you mean the “From India”?
The exonym doesnt have to be identical to the endonym. Some countries try to align the terms, most countries dont care.
I think the main reason Greece hasnt tried to change its exonym is because Hellas is similar to hell. Still, Norway calls Greece Hellas, mostly in order to show how different they are from Sweden. (H)Ellas is so much better sounding, more airy and refined to my Greek ears. Greece sounds too rough and barbaric.
You could drop the H(it is just there for accent/spirit), using just Ellas and/or use the longer Ellada variant but ultimately Greece doesnt care.
Turkey are just assholes so they decided to use a name that most people cant type. They could have chosen Turkia(which is basically the same thing), kinda like the Czech Republic chose to be Czechia but Turkey is not a normal country.
To me, “Hellenic Republic” and “Helliniki Dimokratia” sound pretty great, and don’t really sound like “hell”. But, I can see it for Hellas / Hellada.
On the other hand, an exonym that’s a variant of one used for the country thousands of years ago is also really cool. Even though there are a lot of places that have been inhabited for thousands of years, not many of them can point to a continuity like that, going by the same name for that long.
I also agree, Turkia would have been a decent compromise name. But, I’m just going to keep using Turkey.
No one ever demands all languages should use the English word for an English speaking country. It’s really stupid.
Like if your country was “Everyonehereisacunt” and that country wanted a different name, fine but if it’s just sounds like surely people have the right to use their own language.
Germany: “Fine, fine, we’re Germany to you. You could have called us Dutchland instead of using that for people from the Netherlands, but whatever.”
USA: pointing to people who settled Pennsylvania from Germany “Pennsylvania Dutch!”
Germany: ಠ_ಠ
Shouldnt have called yourself a „Holy Roman Empire” if you didn’t want us to get confused.
It was never Holy Roman Empire.
It was Holy Roman Empire of the German nation.
That is false. It was called the “Holy Roman Empire” from the 13th century until 1512. The name was changed in 1512 to “Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation”. But even in many official texts after 1512 they still left out the latter part.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Roman_Empire#Name_and_general_perception
‘Tyskland’ in Danish, not ‘Tyksland’.
‘Tyksland’ would mean ‘Thickland’ or ‘Fatland’
So it’s Tyskland most of the time, and during the reign of Charles III it can be Tyksland
