Almost like the wealthy should be taxed 90% and healthcare should be free, and rent should be strictly regulated, and everyone should have a labor union.
How about this. If you make it to a net worth of $1 Billion, we get you a nice gold plaque that says, “Congratulations! You have won capitalism.” Then, any income you earn after that is taxed at 100%.
Income and net worth are different concepts though. You can have a car and be too broke to buy gas.
I think you might be failing to envision just how much money a billion dollars is. If your net worth (Assets - Liabilities + Equity) = one billion dollars, you are among the wealthiest of the wealthiest people in the world.
Now, that probably isn’t all just sitting in investments. I’ll be very conservative and say half of it is. If you earned 4% annually on that $500M, which is a pretty decent average, you would gross $20 Million.
I don’t know about you, but if I had $20 Million, I would never have to work another day for the rest of my life. You see where I’m going with this?
Well if they stop working they make 0. 10% of any income is still more than zero, and this would likely be bracketed so high that there’d be at least a million or two in lower tax bands.
Edit: also strictly, the comment you replied to said “the wealthy” this could refer to a wealth tax rather than an income tax, where stopping working would just remove the income but not affect the tax burden at all—i.e. a pretty terrible idea if you want to remain wealthy
No one makes that much money through work, it is through investments. Remove social security tax limits and beef up our nationalized retirement systems then tax investments to death. I don’t care if people are disincentivised from investing in businesses that don’t make any money. I know I’ll ruffle some feathers with this but I truly believe all space travel investments should be redirected to something that can make an immediate difference for those already on the planet, like healthcare or services for those effected by climate change.
What incentive is there to keep working at a 90% tax burden?
Why do people volunteer for free?
The Beatles’ “Taxman” refers to a 95% tax rate that they were complaining about. Yet they still went on to produce more records and earn more money (and yes, work).
If someone has enough money to live a life of luxury, they’ll keep doing what they do to earn that life of luxury.
People volunteer for causes they think are worthy. I would never do the work I get paid to do for free or for 10% of gross pay. I’d just find a less stressful job, work way less and make about the same.
Sounds about right, when nearly 80% are living paycheck-to-paycheck.
It’s a long-standing theme. Thomas Pikettey claims that, throughout the 20th century, about 50% of people own nothing, 40% own their “stuff” - house & car - and 10% own everything else. And, really, that it’s even just the top 2-3% who own the vast majority of that everything-else, except for a brief window after world wars destroyed all the capital, and temporarily put the world into a slightly less unequal condition.
If you consider yourself broke and would like help, please make a post here. I and many others would love to help, but we need some information, such as:
- household income
- monthly expenses - broken down by category, like rent, utilities, groceries, restaurants, etc
- debts - amount owed by account, type of account, interest rate, minimum payment
- assets - value of car(s), cash, etc
- skills/education - in case we want to explore more ways to make money
A lot of people get discouraged and believe that they’re screwed, but I firmly believe there’s always a way to financial stability, it just takes a lot of work and humility.
Hahahaha. Are you preaching work harder pick yourselves up by your bootstraps?
People need to make a minimum amount of money to do that. If their housing alone is more than 50% of their income, what you are thinking won’t work. The money isn’t there.
Also, changing jobs and moving are luxuries that some people struggle to enjoy. Sometimes it requires money upfront, sometimes it requires education people may not have, or some people are unfairly held back with disabilities.
I think you are genuinely trying to help, but this does smell a bit of never having experienced being “in the red” poor no matter what you do. Those people have next to no options.
I’m talking like $30k in income, which far too many families deal with and is unliveable anywhere.
If you’re making $30k, you qualify for a ton of welfare programs throughout the country. So saying “$30k income isn’t livable” doesn’t make sense on its own without taking into account the various programs available. It may still be unlivable, but the income number on its own can’t really determine that.
So that’s why talking about expenses and skills is important. Many problems can be solved with proper budgeting, but some may need a job change to increase income. Increasing income on its own can’t solve budgeting problems (i.e. “you can’t outrun your fork”). Even people with middle and upper middle class incomes live paycheck to paycheck, nearly 1/3 of lottery winners go bankrupt, and nearly 80% of retired NFL players go broke. The reason behind most of those is the same thing I’m talking about: lack of personal finance education and skills.
Not all problems can be solved with budgeting and changing jobs, but a lot of them can be. That’s why I recommend anyone who would like to improve their situation to reach out, more often than not a few extra pairs of eyes can help get you on track to financial security.
You sure make knowledge of and access to resources sound sooooooo simple.
That’s very noble of you, but in our capitalist systems, those who provide the most needed and valuable services are often paid the least. You may feel that telling someone to get better educated and moving somewhere cheaper will solve their problem, but then someone else will fill their past role. Our most expensive cities will always need janitors, line cooks, laborers, shelf stockers and many other roles that will never pay much. We can’t all be coders making 6 figures working remotely from bumbfuck nowhere. This doesn’t even take into account disabled people who can’t provide much or any value in the eyes of our system. You basically want to tell people to bootstrap, just in a gentler way.
Um, no. I want to help people end their own cycle of poverty. There’s nothing wrong with being a janitor, line cook, etc, and my point here isn’t to push people to change their careers, but to end the paycheck to paycheck cycle and get more control over their financials. That’s it.
My offer stands. If you or anyone else wants to discuss personal finance, provide some details and I or someone else here would love to lend a pair of eyes. However, if you’re intent on maintaining your status quo, I guess good luck to you and I hope you find success in whatever way you choose to define it.
I’m not sure why you got up on your soapbox to put someone down like that. They didn’t say any of the things you said. Their comment isn’t even edited, and yours is…
Because this is a forum where people share perspectives. If you don’t want to hear them then don’t read the comments.
They’re asking for info so they can help with a budget or a debt paying strategy.
A budget is a luxury that requires a minimum amount of income. They are presuming people are just being bad with their money, and it completely sidesteps the real issue and story here that income is far too low for basic costs for a large number of people.
It reeks of “work harder” bullshit.
I’ve come to the conclusion that I will be broke for the rest of my life. Outside of a winning lottery ticket, there is no way I will ever have a day when I’m not dodging collection agencies, praying I don’t get pulled over for expired tags (because I can’t afford insurance), or being one missed paycheck away from homelessness.
And since cheap liquor only comes in plastic bottles (and therefore when thrown will not explode on impact), I don’t see any way to change anything.
If you’d like someone to review your income and expenses, I’m willing to help, and I’m sure many others are as well. Please make a post if you would like some advice.
I appreciate the offer, but my income just isn’t enough to live on. I track every penny and while there are a few expenses I could cut, the money saved by depriving myself of those little luxuries wouldn’t pay a single overdue bill. And after job searching for almost an entire year while unemployed, I also know there are no higher paying jobs that I’m capable of getting.
That may be, or it may not. I don’t know your income, expenses, or what’s reasonable in your area. However, if you always do what you’ve always done, you’ll always get what you’ve always got, and by your own words, what you’ve got isn’t working for you.
If you think your income is the issue and you’re having trouble finding better paying work, you should probably try something different. Talk to a career counselor, get a certification/degree, start a business, etc. There are lots of options for improving your job options, such as:
- apprenticeship at a trade - plumbers and electricians are in high demand I hear
- apply to drive a truck and get a CDL - I see signs in my area saying they’ll pay for your training to drive, and once you get a CDL, your options expand a lot
- night school - nursing is a big one in my area, but lots of programs exist; you may qualify for assistance as well
You can’t control who will pay you, but you do control how you spend your money and your time. Getting a better paying job takes a lot more than just sending out applications, it involves being bold, following up (call places you’ve applied), and adjusting your resume based on the feedback you’re getting (if you’re not getting interviews, make some changes for the next batch of applications, and ideally tailor your resume for each job). You have nothing to lose when applying for a job (worst they can do is say no), so you might as well give it your all.
Our entire system is designed to make people spend every dollar they make on stupid toys and other things they don’t need. People make hundreds of thousands a year and spend it all in monthly payments. I know lots of “well off” people who can’t survive more than a few months before being in serious financial trouble.
As long as the payments can be made it’s encouraged to just buy more and more and more.
I think most of these huge payments are not due to stupid toys, it’s due to college debt, mortgages, and medical debt. I wish it was spent on toys instead.
For some that’s true, but go count the number of trailers, ATVs, watercraft and other toys that way too many people have. Same goes for cars and houses. Buy the most expensive stuff you can so you can stay ahead of your friends!
Maybe get out of suburbia. There’s far more people lower than middle class just struggling to survive, and toys are a luxury.
