214 points

It feels like the big elephant in the room about shorter work weeks and more remote work is that lower level employee productivity is not the issue with them (likely at all).

And it isn’t even that managers and higher-ups have some biases against such schemes (which they certainly do).

It’s that such schemes put a clearer focus on the actual role managers and higher-ups are supposed to be performing, namely organising employees and their tasks and priorities into coherent and well-planned projects. Managers are, on average, not actually good at this. And the problem is systemic … the average work culture doesn’t have a good sense of what this looks like. Instead, there are “glue people” all over the place, working beyond their roles to fill in the gaps and keep things together.

But, with a less “monolithic”, co-located and co-active workforce, the need for actual coordination beyond “do the things! LFG!!” becomes very real, and very anxious for people who either don’t know how to do that or don’t want the world to find out that things were actually working fine in spite of their inability to do it. A remote and discretely scheduled workforce necessarily asks accountability questions like “who is responsible for planning this?” and “this isn’t my responsibility, you need to get someone else to do it” etc.

Managers and higher-ups aren’t comfortable with their actual value being scrutinised more closely. And in many ways, it’s actually understandable … as they likely don’t know the answer themselves.

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51 points

I think this was actually the first time someone put it this way and me reading it. I felt this way for years but never did I actually stop and think about this in such a manner. Maybe also because it is discouraged to talk about it.

I think this deserves its own post.

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20 points

Thanks for the complement … and I’m glad my hot take resonates. If you like you can paste this into your own post (and just link back here or whatever if you want to cite me).

Your own experience realising that you’ve felt this but not been able to talk about it could be a very interesting addition or framing and is also probably deserving of its own post!

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23 points

Aww, you guys are sweet!

Kidding aside, you’re definitely onto something vis a vis insecure and quite likely incompetent middlemen!

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25 points
*

So true!

Since I started to answer more “who planned that?”, "who decided we should do this/that? instead of like “we’ll try to make it work next sprint” and taking obvious flak, things are way more calm nowadays.

In my last job, productivity was through the roof when the managers were on holidays.

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11 points

FYI Plannified is not a word in English.

I have seen it for years from native French speakers though.

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6 points

Thanks! Planned it is I guess!

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13 points

I wish it were that simple. There’s also personality and behaviour differences in people. Some people simply suck at working alone or remotely and it fucking sucks to be their manager because guess who has to work onsite now?

Even if my current team was like my previous ones where everyone could 100% remote—hell, I saw one guy every six months or so and let another travel Europe remote working—theres’s personalities that loooooooove seeing everyone at work and 0.6 of their FTE is socialising. Work is getting out of the house and away from the family. They complain that no one’s at the office to get paid to talk to.

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24 points

And what about the people that suck at working at the office? And those that don’t get any or are not interested in a work based social life?

Reality is that there’s diversity and lots of in betweens. Thus diversity and flexibility and the value of managers in bringing it all together (like maybe they were always supposed to?)

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12 points

And those people need to find a damn hobby!

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12 points

They have one, it’s called getting paid to socialize at work

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73 points

But what the employees do with their new found free time?

Develop independence, or even, compete with us? No no can’t have that.

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23 points

Exactly, wouldn’t want the slaves to get ideas.

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56 points

Microsoft currently technically does unlimited time off, so there really is nothing stopping managers and PMs from cancelling meetings from every Friday and making this a reality for a global trial, but they wouldn’t do that because the meetings are a big part of how they show their worth ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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28 points
Removed by mod
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1 point

Refuse a meeting without a reasonable agenda and time limit, and indicate why it was rejected.

If the time limit is reached, tell the organizer that you have other tasks to tend to and leave the meeting.

Easier said than done, but we got to hold accountable the people that waste our time and energy.

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3 points

Or their “worth”

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55 points

I wonder what excuse they used to shut it down

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40 points

Considering it was in Japan they probably got off by just saying it was an experiment and the results would be evaluated (in the trash compactor). Japan is notably risk averse.

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21 points

And also values the appearance of productivity over actual productivity.

See: Their silly fake running in the hallways.

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12 points

“Now jobs are supposed to be miserable, so joy is canceled”

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6 points

“It’s woooooooooooke!”

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6 points

To shut down what? By design, that was a short trial:

The company introduced a program this summer in Japan called the “Work Life Choice Challenge,” which shut down its offices every Friday in August and gave all employees an extra day off each week.

And like any short trial, it doesn’t answer the question whether the increased productivity would stay over longer periods of time. Other trials suggest that it wouldn’t.

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8 points

Even if productivity turns out to be the same, the 4-day work week would be better.

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1 point

I fully agree. But I don’t like misleading posts like this one implying that a 4-day work week would lead to better productivity. That’s called confirmation bias. We (workers) won’t achieve anything by spreading lies like that.

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1 point
*

They didn’t really cancel it, it kept going through corona when the entire staff went remote so the conversation stopped cause everyone was kind of working on their own desired time anyway.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=h-2ExgMVZcE

Microsoft continues to do full remote and “hybrid” (only coming into the office once or twice a week) work schedules depending on your position and responsibilities.

Edit: I also wanted to add some clarity about Japan’s labor laws and how they interfere with a more “lax” labor schedule.

Japan requires employers submit the actual working schedules of employees and proof that they’re working those schedules (usually either time cards) as a way to prevent overwork.

This obviously doesn’t work in many cases because bosses will force their employees to work past their time clocks in or work during nomikais.

And on the other hand, this prevents teams in larger organizations from taking more hands-on approaches to their work schedules by forcing employees to work the schedules they’re assigned.

What a lot of foreign companies and companies that do full remote do is exactly the same as “black companies”: they fake their employees time cards so they can take a day off even when the official work schedule says they were working that day.

Japan needs some reform in their labor measuring practices before 4-day work weeks (a surprisingly popular reform, given Japan’s penchant for conservatism in the workplace) can take hold properly.

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29 points

They’ll never agree to a 4 day work week, because then they know they’ll be looking at a 3 day work week one day.

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27 points

This is the war that’s coming.

More and more processes are automatic, and AI is now breaking down the last holdout of “manual” jobs.

How will that future, where only a small percentage of mankind actually needs to work, look like? It could be heaven, but it’s shaping up to be hell unless we win these fights.

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15 points
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The future where only some people need to work will literally never come. It relies on the premise that the ownership class will give up ownership. They will not.

The machines that increase the productivity and reduce the need for manual labor will just increase profit for the owner/shareholders. Increases in productivity mean ABSOLUTELY NOTHING for the common person. You already hear this argument now in the form of “I took the risk and put up capital to run the business so I deserve the lions share of profits.” That argument will just become “I put forward the capital to buy the machines that produce the products, why do you deserve any of it!?”

The same could be said for AI. “I paid for the license to run this AGI, why should you get anything from my profit!?”

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6 points

I mean for some AI at least it was directly trained on material from random internet people. I deserve money from any chatgpt work because I made a lot of Reddit comments.

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3 points

That’s why you’ve got to take it

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-1 points

Unlikely. While a 4 day week generates more profit with happier workers, a 3 day week doesn’t.

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5 points

I just don’t see us moving down to a 5 day work week from six. God already gave us one day off for us to find happiness in his glory I don’t see what a second day would add to it. And how will the factories make money when the children aren’t there to run the machines?

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Work Reform

!workreform@lemmy.world

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A place to discuss positive changes that can make work more equitable, and to vent about current practices. We are NOT against work; we just want the fruits of our labor to be recognized better.

Our Philosophies:

  • All workers must be paid a living wage for their labor.
  • Income inequality is the main cause of lower living standards.
  • Workers must join together and fight back for what is rightfully theirs.
  • We must not be divided and conquered. Workers gain the most when they focus on unifying issues.

Our Goals

  • Higher wages for underpaid workers.
  • Better worker representation, including but not limited to unions.
  • Better and fewer working hours.
  • Stimulating a massive wave of worker organizing in the United States and beyond.
  • Organizing and supporting political causes and campaigns that put workers first.

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