No no no no NO!
This is some guilt-tripping, gaslighting, deflecting DARVO bullshit, and I won’t have it.
Bigots do not become bigots because of their exposure to “others”. When those of us who are “others” [refuse to tolerate the intolerance of others] (out of principle or justifiable self-defense) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance), their frustration and their lashing-out as a result is not our fault. Nobody can be held responsible for another individual’s lack of emotional self-control.
When people act out with violence, motivated by hate, fear, and ignorance, they are to blame— never the victims.
Someone being at fault for something, and someone unintentionally influencing another, are two separate things.
Family members going down toxic rabbit holes as a response to someone close to them coming out, is just that - a response to someone close to them coming out. It is quite literally cause and effect.
That doesn’t mean that the family member’s bigotry is the person’s problem though, nor should they feel any sense of blame whatsoever.
I’m not talking about causing effect. What I’m saying is that one family members decision to embrace hatred and bigotry is not the fault or the responsibility of the family member who came out of the closet. The family member who decided and made the choice to become a hateful bigot did so of their own accord, and the family member who bravely chose to live as their own self is not to blame for that.
One thing may have led to the other, but that does not mean that one thing inherits responsibility or blame for the other.
t’s not so simple as an assumed reaction as you imply: it’s not one object striking another, transferring energy, and causing the next object to move. This other family member chooses hate and bigotry and then to act on those ideologies and feelings. That is not the same as the simple thing you reference.
What I’m saying is that one family members decision to embrace hatred and bigotry is not the fault or the responsibility of the family member who came out of the closet
Like I said, I completely agree with this. And,
The family member who decided and made the choice to become a hateful bigot did so of their own accord
while true, that chain of events was started when they, bravely, came out. It’s not their problem, nor should they feel any guilt whatsoever, as there’s nothing that they did wrong. But the fact is that the toxic path the family member went down only happened because of that coming out. Literally just cause and effect, it’s factually what happened.
That’s why I say that there’s a difference between someone being at fault for something, and someone unintentionally influencing another. The article simply states that she saw his radicalism start when she came out. Not that her coming out was somehow wrong. She’s literally just stating her truth. Her coming out started him on this path. And, that’s not her fault.
First of all, what you said was not stated in the article, and it should have been, so they could at least pretend they weren’t victim blaming. As it is, they can’t even pretend, they’re stuck with people like you apologizing for their worthless drivel.
Second, you’re speculating that the family members went down toxic rabbit holes as a response. I think it’s just as likely that they already went down those rabbit holes, but others didn’t know about it, because they didn’t have occasion to proclaim their feelings. Which is to say, the damage had already been done, but you didn’t know it.
I agree that it should’ve been stated in the article, I’m not apologizing for them not doing so. I’m just reiterating what his daughter’s perception is, and that the reality of that isn’t “wrong”, as it’s entirely possible that his descent, if it was a descent, happened as a result.
Once again, this is literally how she saw things play out. That’s all the information we have, anything else is speculation, including the notion that he was like, born a bigot. Unfortunately these toxic ideas aren’t born with people, they’re infected with them at some point. And like I’ve said, I’ve personally witnessed it happen to genuinely terrific people.
So unless we all plan on ignoring Vivian’s own words, I don’t think there’s much more that can be said. And regardless, none of this was my point anyway. My point was literally that the title of the article isn’t wrong, and that something being caused by another can be possible without anyone being at fault for it.
OP is an idiot. That’s like saying exposure to anything doesn’t precipitate a response. It does.
His response or change may be directly caused by his experiences. We also have no idea what their interactions were.
I agree, but I don’t think OP is an idiot, imo it’s a totally valid response to have. I mean think of all the people that have come out, had their families lose their minds, and then be directly blamed for it.
Seeing a title like this and assuming that it’s assigning blame, even when its Vivian herself just stating the chain of events, is understandable when this is such a problem in the community.
No she didn’t.
Elon Musk is what he always was. He wants you to scapegoat his daughter because that’s easy for him. He’s a piece of shit entirely on his own, don’t blame her for his vile nature.
This article does a poor job of discussing Elon (but that’s not really the point of the article). Vivian has talked about how she felt Elon became more radical as she transitioned. That not blaming her, it’s listening to what she has to say
His daughter did not influence him. That makes it sounds like the daughter was the cause of him shifting right.
Musk reacted to the fact that his daughter was trans. His reaction was taking off his mask and being the piece of shit he already was more openly.
Edit: Not sure why I didn’t think to include it at the time, but the healine has a real “Husband beat wife because she burnt dinner.” vibe to it.
I think it’s more accurate to say that his reaction led him down toxic rabbit holes that warped his opinions and beliefs into what they are now.
Obviously we’ll never know, but I’ve personally known people who’ve genuinely changed as they got lost down various paths. Someone who’s indoctrinated into a cult, for example, obviously wasn’t indoctrinated as they came out of the womb. They weren’t always like that, it instead happened to them as some point.
Elon Musk’s transgender daughter brought his far-right bigotry to light. A lot of trans people have family members like him.
FTFY
I’m confused. I don’t see any victim blaming in the article. Most of the article is lending a voice to trans/NB people to tell how hard it is, when someone in their family is bigoted and anti trans to begin with and how they, instead of trying to understand, doubled down on their hatred and bigotry and became nasty after they came out.
People do not become right wing bigots, because they have a trans child or cousin. But for some its hard to confront their own bigotry when suddenly the thing they “fear” is in their own backyard. So they react the opposite and burrow down deeper in right wing hatred.
Can we not acknowledge that this is an effect often hapening in right wing families when a family member comes out? That doesnt mean the coming out is at fault. Its bigots doubling down on their bigotry, because they can not, like normal people, reflect on their stance and admit, that maybe they were wrong.
Vivian was victimized by her father’s heartless disregard and rejection of her identity. Elon is now going around stating a narrative that her coming out to him is at least a significant contributing reason he is a fascist (“I lost my son to the woke mind virus”), a narrative that this headline plays directly into. You can take the same sequence of facts and headline it as “Musk is going public with the same bigotry that he wielded against his transgender daughter. A lot of trans people have family members like him” that doesn’t make it sound like Elon Musk would have been politely building his rockets and evs in a corner if only his daughter hadn’t come out as trans, and doesn’t make it sound like Vivian indirectly donated 10s of millions of dollars to Trump’s 2024 campaign by coming out as someone that that exact campaign wants to suppress. The headline as written is almost a threat to closeted trans people. “Yeah, your parents may be Schrodinger’s bigots right now, but come out and they will go full scorched earth to dehumanize you and you will be responsible for their shift”.
I’m pretty sure you are agreeing that that isn’t the case, and it wouldn’t surprise me if the text of the article is also aligned against that message, but the headline (probably written by an editor hungry for rage clicks) is solidly aligned to it, and should be called out for that
This is what her hot air balloon of a excuse for a farher said, not the article. Be angry and speak out against Elon Musks bigotry. Not about what you “think” an article you actually didn’t read might have said because of your interpretation of a headline.
We all should know by now that this click bait shit is all hot air most of the time, so why play into it?
I feel like a lot of people here still have to learn how to deal with todays sensationalist internet media. Don’t believe everything you (didn’t) read at first glance.
If you consume todays “news” only by headlines, without looking behind it and using your own common sense and critical thinking, you are bound to come out with a very distorted world view.
The headline is written as a factual statement, not a quoted opinion. It therefore endorses the idea that Musk’s daughter turned him into a fascist. Everyone knows most people stop reading after the headline, so a headline that only stops being misleading when you read the article is just misleading.
My dad is very conservative but hates Trump and his racism etc. But he’s always been anti LGBT etc cause of religion. Fast forward to now and one of his grand children is trans and the other gay. My siblings and I have taken a stance of “if you don’t like it there’s the door” and we’ve given him no option but to accept it unless he wants to die alone. It forced him to at least watch what he says and to shut the fuck up about his opinions he’s not willing to change.
Yeah but it’s easier to just claim outrage at the click bait title and not read the article tbf
