What’s so good about raw milk, I’ve seen Yanks mention it a bunch of times
They thinks it’s better for you or something because it’s not processed. It’s actually worse, can make you really sick if you get unlucky
ah yes. just the way God intended; we should be drinking raw, non-processed… cow milk.
It’s actually worse, can make you really sick if you get unlucky
The part that gets me is this…
You can get salmonella from unpasteurized milk. This happens a lot…especially considering America pasteurizes the majority of its milk…but when you hear of a milk-related outbreak a lot of the time it’s from unpasteurized milk even though percent wise it’s a small portion of our milk supply.
Anyway. A healthy adult might get through salmonella ok. BUT. Salmonella can completely fuck up a 3 year old’s kidneys FOR LIFE. And it can be just as bad for the elderly.
These are both groups that have other people providing their food. If a 3 year old or child is given milk by mom and dad…well, they drink it. They have no choice in whether it’s pasteurized or not. That’s why government regulation of milk steps in, to make sure dumb people having babies don’t harm their kids through their poor choices.
Giving unpasteurized milk to kids is similar to anti-vaxxers not vaccinating their kids. Basically, the parent involved has gone haywire over any smaller/imagined detriment or benefit, and chooses the action that could bring the MOST harm while thinking they are taking the route of least harm.
With raw milk, parents think the “nutrients” are better or something (even though…you know…we cook most of our food so MOST of our food is heat treated), and the food poisoning from possible salmonella minor/non-existent, when reality the nutrient profile isn’t much different between pasteurized/unpasteurized milk, but the salmonella can kill the vulnerable or cripple their organs for life.
It all comes down to people being alive now in an era where we no longer have elders/grandparents telling others about how people used to DIE from these things.
People hear about getting cancer or dementia or whatever all the time, but haven’t actually seen the old-school childhood illnesses from tainted milk or viruses or the like, so people make the wrong choice because it’s not apparent from their own life experience how bad those illnesses were since they don’t have family that talks about people they knew who got sick and died. The science is too abstract for them to internalize, but “choosing your own food” feels good and feels like you’re in control…so people go down that route instead because they haven’t seen the consequences of salmonella in their own family or in their friends (because there’s a lot of barriers in places, including pasteurization of milk, to try to stop/prevent outbreaks.)
Worth adding that the current bird flu outbreak that’s spilled over to dairy cows is another significant risk with raw milk that doesn’t exist in pasteurized milk. Relevant source with some details on how it affects the poor farm cats
It can be healthier, if it doesn’t make you sick. You gotta be used to it though
From what I can get from a quick google normal homogenized milk can lead to health problems (but don’t get scared its not poison). Instead it’s better to drink organic milk that’s not homogenized.
And I would say let the farmers drink raw milk, they know the health of their cows best.
Edit: Of course milk should be pasteurised, it’s the homogenisation that should be avoided. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homogenization_(chemistry)
Do you mean pasteurized? Homogenized just means that the milk is mixed so there isn’t a fat layer.
Also it can be pasteurized and still organic. So I am suspicious of your understanding here.
He already said he “only did a quick google” so it’s fair to say there is no understanding. Love the vague “health problems” as the reason to avoid safe milk too lol.
Of course milk should be pasteurised, it’s the homogenisation that should be avoided.
This has nothing to do with anything, but I know what homogenized means in the context of milk, but when I was a kid, I used to think it meant milk from different cows had been mixed. Like, that’s why the called it homogenized. That they were, for some reason, mandated to make giant vats of cow-juice from millions of cows, and stir it together before they could sell it.
Some people get crazy about it.
The US in general had some way worse listeria outbreaks than Europe did in the window where pasteurization laws were first becoming things anyone was considering, so we start from a much more “your milk will be made safe” place.
As a result, raw milk, while still uncommon, can be sold in stores or other “normal” retail settings in most of Europe, and it’s probably what will be used for cheese manufacturing.
In the US, it’s only available via stores that sell it exclusively via club membership, and you might get raided by the USDA if they suspect you’re trying to skirt the rules about membership. (Some stores have done hourly membership that comes with a free gallon of milk). Milk must also be pasteurized before being used for cheese, which creates a market for black market cheeses that can’t be made with pasteurized milk but aren’t cost effective to import past the various taxes we put on luxury cheese.
As a result most Americans are either far more wary of raw milk, because our laws were written before modern milking practices reduced sanitary concerns to what we accept for meat, or they develop a persecution complex and ascribe it quasi-magical powers, ironically often getting it from places that don’t follow the sanitary practices that render it likely benign.
The thing to keep in mind when you compare the saga of turn of the century milk production between Europe and the US/Canada is the immigrant population. There just wasn’t a market for milk in the urban setting in Europe because everyone knew it was deadly since the Roman times.
Compare that to New York, where they had a large influx of immigrants from small farming communities where children would often drink milk when young and they would buy milk that was sold out of unrefrigerated wagons coming from cows kept in confined spaces within the city. It was murderous, with tens of thousands of children’s deaths in New York City alone. Of course this was the age of Cholera so the lives of people in cities came cheap.
The plain truth was adding formalin, which has no safe dose itself, was safer than drinking that shit the way they were selling it. North American cities quickly banned unpasteurized milk once the causal relationship was proven (despite the milkmen complaining).
It’s what you want for cheese and butter making. Other than that, it’s probably a reason there was a fair bit of kids that died before pasteurization.
When I was a kid, we still had milk cows so I probably dodged a bullet, and it wasn’t that my parents were some back-to-the-earth whackos, it was just Canadian rural life in the 70s. I do remember milk tasting better then though.
I grew up milking cows and drinking raw milk as well. The reason we didn’t get sick was because of the basic quality control we did as routine. In order for the pathogens to cause illness it needs three things: innoculum, time to grow and the right temperature to grow at.
The milk was immediately put into the fridge when we brought it in. It stayed in the fridge until it was used.
When you have 1-2 gallons coming into the house every day, you use a lot of milk and use it constantly. You don’t put a gallon in the fridge and drink over 2-3 weeks. You have to consume, process or dump it because the fridge only holds so much and you only have so many jugs. We made butter and cheese every week at least. No gallon lasted in the fridge more than 5-6 days. Usually it was used in 2-3 days.
We knew the cow well. When she was sick or had an infection, we dumped the milk. We had to give ours antibiotics for mastitis a few times. We dumped the milk until the antibiotic was out of her system as well.
Any jug that smelled off was dumped. It wasn’t a big deal since we had another gallon coming in a few hours.
Yah, you always milked off the first bit on the ground or to the cats. We sold a little bit to the dairy so we didn’t end up wasting a lot, and everything went to the fridge quickly. On the other hand, I loved milk and on a hot day I’ve drank the better part of a gallon by myself so there wasn’t much chance of it laying around. I did stop doing that when I realized how god-awful many calories whole milk has in it.
kitchen table chairs outdoors in the grass is a recipe for a broken chair and a crying kid.
I count seven children. Has she lost track?
Having kids and drinking milk all day sounds like my idea of hell, actually. I’m terrible with kids and my lactose intolerant bowels are protesting in advance…
There’s not a thing wrong with wanting a traditional family and traditional gender role life. A lot of people want that and life doesn’t have to be super complicated to be rewarding.
When you start spending all your time on the internet making monetized content about it and deliberately choosing to engage with the absolute worst people on the internet is where it becomes a suspect thing where the behavior doesn’t match the stated goal
There is something wrong with a traditional gender role life. Traditional gender roles are misogynist. Now, sure, a grown woman can consent to a BSDM lifestyle with her husband, that’s fine. But you do not involve your kids in that shit.
Traditional gender roles are bondage. They are. And if you have a relationship that practices BDSM as a lifestyle, you need to follow modern consent practices. Conservatives want to talk about kink at pride? Grooming children? That’s what this is. This is grooming. This is exposing children to your fetish and telling them it’s the lord’s plan for them.
I don’t think traditional gender roles and BDSM should really be compared like that. But yes, patriarchal family life and domination are often the centerpieces.
In maths, you have two kinds of relationship between expressions. An equation is when they’re the same. A comparison is when they’re different.
You’re saying I compared BDSM and traditional gender roles, but I didn’t. I equated them. I said they’re the same. The patriarchy is a system of sexual domination. It’s a fetish.
You said not to compare BDSM and traditional gender roles, but I’ll ignore you and do it anyway now. What’s different about the two is that BDSM is supposed to be done with safe practices to ensure consent, and most people know it. Traditional gender roles have no safe practices. Nobody checks if the wife consents.
Traditional gender roles should be equal to BDSM. We should only be able to make equations between the two. We should not be able to compare them and say they’re different. We should be calling this “tradwife” meme a fetish, and pressuring the people who engage in it to practice safe consensual sex.
Plus, you know, equating tradwife bullshit with lefty deviancy is really gonna piss off some conservatives, and that’s worth doing all on its own.
There is something wrong with a traditional gender role life.
No there isn’t.
If a queer person is empowered to tell a conservative that “listen I’m gonna need you to STFU about my lifestyle choices, there’s not a thing wrong with them if that’s what I have decided to do” - which is 100% fair - then any person who feels that traditional gender roles suit them fine needs to be empowered to make the same STFU statement to anyone who’s somehow decided that they get to make the same determination on behalf of someone who just wants a family and kids and a farm somewhere, because they’ve decided that’s what will make them happy.
Misogyny is misogyny. “Normal” gender roles are different. Maybe the issue is a difference of definitions; there’s a certain amount of spousal abuse and authoritarianism that got written down as “traditional” by the ones that like to practice it. If that’s what you’re talking about or what you thought I meant by “traditional,” I will be fully in agreement with you that it’s fucked. What I am talking about is something different though.
Traditional gender roles are abusive 100% of the time. Now, if your transfemme polycule wants to play out a Stepford Wives kink fantasy (I am citing my own ex’s fetish), then that’s fine. That can be consensual. But if you’re talking about actual tradition, the actual relationships of the past, that shit is abusive no matter what.
We are talking about a system where you can’t divorce your husband if he beats you. Spousal rape isn’t real rape. Abortion is illegal. No painkillers during birth. No birth control. Women being sold off to other families. Treated as possessions. You can’t have a system of slavery and say that isn’t abusive. There are no good slaveowners. And there are no good traditional husbands. Many men of 100 years ago were good people who meant well and did their best to do well. But the system they lived in was innately abusive. For all the kindness and decency they gave their wives, they could not give their wives the freedom to choose another life. And that lack of freedom is abuse. Often not the husband’s fault, because he lived in a society where he was expected to behave that way.
But today, we have moved beyond those norms. So if a husband wants to go back to that old system and own his wife, then it is his fault. He is an abuser, no matter how kind or gentle. There is a way to make the appearance of a traditional relationship work as a kink. A way to ensure enthusiastic consent. There’s roleplay to be done. But it won’t actually be a traditional marriage. The people advocating actual traditional marriages, they want the abuse.
You’re just as much an anti choice bigot as the conservatives pushing trad life on people. If a woman makes a choice to stay at home to raise children, that’s valid and not “bondage”.
I didn’t say bondage was invalid. I said bondage without proper safety measures is invalid.
The woman was left to give birth alone. She had to self administer an epidural in secret. This shit ain’t vanilla!
Choosing to be a stay at home mom is fine and not bondage, that’s not what tradwife is. A tradwife chooses to be subservient to her husband and teaches her children that men are superior. Calling it a kink involving kids is letting it off lightly.
I mean I’m cishet, but I kind of see your point, especially when kids are involved. Some specialisation of parental roles is fine ofc, but then some parents fall into pretty toxic, patriarchal roles, just because that’s how they were raised.
I’m talking like the woman taking on virtually all childcare and household labour and logistics (even when working), in such a way that they’re contributing much more into the relationship than their partner.
This - while I’d argue that feeding raw milk to children, for instance, is probably in violation of local statutes in most of the US, the overall premise isn’t necessarily invalid - the idea of forcing it on others and packaging/selling it as an influencer is what’s flawed.
My wife and I have a carefully negotiated relationship that is nowhere near tradwife, but not necessarily contemporary traditional either. I ended up in the hospital recently, and all that went out the window - she spoke for me, signed various forms of consent on my behalf, and the like as/when necessary.
The “tradwife” package seems to ignore that such moments will be necessary in any life, especially one with kids involved, and certainly any life that involves the risks of e.g., farm work. People get hurt and need consent for treatment, folks get sick and need to handle business over the phone but are unable to speak on their own behalf because they’re sick, etc.
From where I sit, anything resembling what the tradwife influencers are selling is completely invalid/impractical without an ‘escape hatch’ allowing the (generally) submissive spouse to take the reins as an when necessary and of their own volition… along with ensuring that said spouse has a functional understanding of how and when to do so, per the laws of their particular state.
Without that, you’re just playing a damned risky game that has a realistic chance of causing serious injury to one or more involved parties in the medium term.
It really annoys me how creepy misogynist awful people think they get to represent the traditional family.
I have a super traditional looking family. Stay at home mom and everything. But it is sick and disgusting to act like having a setup you enjoy means it’s the only valid one. You see, we care more about raising a decent and happy person than indoctrinating them into some belief system that focuses on who our enemies are.
Rejecting loving families because they look different than traditional does not make you the representatives of traditional, fucknuts.