Since Wrestlemania there’s been nothing but stories about John Cena winning an amazing 17th title, blah blah blah… It’s a “History making moment”, yadda yadda yadda…
Like…of course he did. It’s the storyline. It’s quite literally “in the script”.
This isn’t an achievement. Why is this in my sports news next to last night’s hockey scores instead of next to an article about who was the bitchiest on the lastest episode of Real Housewives?
I get it. I loved Wrestling growing up. Back when we all WERE pretending it was real; Macho Man, Hulk Hogan, The Undertaker, etc… But I thought at some point they steered into the whole “entertainment” aspect when most of us grew the hell up and clued into the absurdity of it all.
It’s a soap opera for men. Sure the storyline is made up, but people still like being entertained.
Note, I am assuming the match was good. I haven’t watch wrestling in a while, but some of those old matches are still fun to watch.
I’ve heard the soap opera comparison before. But I think “circus” is technically more accurate. You’ve got these very obvious professional athletes performing a well-rehearsed routine that is physically demanding and dramatically delivered.
Like, would you call a tightrope walker or a trapeze artist “fake”? If a dozen clowns pile out of a car and start performing back flips and somersaults and climbing into human pyramids and spraying one another with seltzer bottles, would you dismiss it as an obviously scripted display?
Would you go to a Harlem Globetrotters game and complain when they pull out a springboard and start doing stunt slam dunks?
It’s a show! It doesn’t need to be competitive in order to be fun.
Yeah from a physical aspect yes you are correct but wrestling has the storylines that the circus doesn’t. The Jerry springer like drama and feuds that people really get invested in with the same level of chair throwing.
wrestling has the storylines that the circus doesn’t
Every Cirque-du-Soleil I’ve been to has had a storyline.
The Jerry Springer like drama and feuds that people really get invested in with the same level of chair throwing.
There’s a ton of hype that builds up around the actual events, in no small part because the events themselves are physically exhausting and the producers need to fill hours of time with minutes of match.
But we see the exact same kind of shit during the Olympics. Two talking heads reading out an athlete’s life story for half an hour, right before you get to see a three minute floor routine or a sixteen second bobsled run.
The outcome of the match is predetermined while the participants pretend that it isn’t. That is why there are constant arguments about whether or not it’s “fake”.
The outcome of the match is predetermined while the participants pretend that it isn’t.
The adventure is in the journey, not the destination. I don’t care whether you win or you lose when I came to see two roided out giants do backflip kicks into one another’s torsos while their friends spray silly string to distract the combatants from the sidelines.
That is why there are constant arguments about whether or not it’s “fake”.
There is absolutely no question that the outcome of the matches is predetermined, in the same way that there is absolutely no doubt that the Rat King is going to get killed by the Nutcracker at the ballet. But both wrestling and ballet are athletic endeavors.
Would you go to a Harlem Globetrotters game and complain when they pull out a springboard and start doing stunt slam dunks?
I did, so Ethan “Bubblegum” Tate made fun of me, I became verbally abusive, and then they asked me to leave.
Honestly a reasonable reaction from Bubblegum. Why go to a Globetrotters game and then complain about them doing Globetrotters stuff?
Would you watch a documentary and then complain about a silky British voiceover? Or a soap opera and complain about the hazy look of it? Or a musical when you can see the actor scurrying away after “dying” (hint, they don’t actually die)
Circus comparison is good but I prefer drag race. It’s a bunch of (generally) men in costumes and make up performing very well-practiced routines for the sole purpose of entertainment, with one rigged winner at the end.
Maybe wrestling fans wouldn’t like that comparison as much.
I’ve never seen ‘drag race’ used in this context, and I was wondering how you were about to compare drag racing (like with cars) with wrestling.
Living in the western world - I hear nothing about Wrestling…
Same. US defaultism strikes again. I don’t think I have ever heard anyone talk about wrestling in my life
Wrestling has a significant presence in Central America, Japan, and Europe. Presumably other regions as well but I really don’t follow the sport so my experience is all second-hand.
Real wrestling yes.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWfeskasuOjBfZ5WxG66bvBeI8XQtNHA5
Wrestling is a form of theatre.
Its just the high octane, sensationalized, ridiculous, coked up, american pop culture version of Theatre.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnvSs3HEz2o excellent video where someone talks about why Wrestling got popular
Wrestling Isn’t Sports. But it also isn’t fake. Not entirely. the outcomes are usually scripted, and theres a card they are usually following (Sometimes, they aren’t. Whether its a botch, a shoot, etc) (botch means a mistake, a shoot means someone’s not acting, and they’re throwing real punches)
but the acrobatics and "stunts’ people are doing, are very real. an incredible amount of effort and skill is needed to have the physical ability and timing to make the stuff look real for the kids and cameras
thats why its called sports entertainment,
Just to further your point. It’s like Cirque du Soleil, scripted, but they are really doing those moves.
Far as I know, not very.
Real combat with weapons is not all that entertaining.
You nick a guy in the right place and he’ll die a slow agonising death in the locker room, far from the eyes of the crowd, then you’re down an athlete and even the enslaved ones aren’t cheap, and they need training, and housing, and feeding, etc.
Moreover this may happen at any point of the fight and that’s not very satisfying to watch, think Mike Tyson one-hit KO vs a 20 minute banger with back nad forth.
So obviously you’d make it look good and take your time, send the crowd home happy. Even were it a real competition, which it was at times.
Gladiators that were intantionally killed in the arena were “bought” by the editor (the person paying for the games overall), and it was at a premium. Afterall the lanista got a major cut of their stable’s wins, so you’d have to cover the sum of all the potential winnings of the rest of their careers, and then some, to make it worth it.
So it wasn’t quite pro wrestling, but it was definitely close, the economics of it make more sense that way, and the (relative) longevity of certain documented gladiators also.
Counterpoint- all sports are silly. That’s why they are called games.
I don’t dunk on wrestling fans anymore because people are free to enjoy whatever they want. But it’s always been like this. It didn’t change - you did. Personal growth!
I agree to some extent, but there’s an important difference between sport and performance. WWE is categorically separate from say, BJJ. Sure, they both have guys rolling around on the floor, and they’re both kinda silly, but one is a real competition with rules and skill while the other is a predetermined show.
there’s an important difference between sport and performance
Sure. Namely, that sports tend to be “competitive” while performances tend to be entirely about spectacle. But to claim that Simone Biles is a Real Athlete while Britt Baker isn’t, because one of them does her leaps and tumbles and flexibility stunts at Olympic sanctioned events and the other does it during AEW matches… you’re really ignoring the substance for the pastiche.
What one might argue “ruins” wrestling is all the phoney accolades various performers receive. Claiming you’re “The Best Wrestler” in a staged performance is meaningless, because its clearly a scripted fight. At the same time, very few people showing up to a nationally televised event are anything less than exceptional in athletic talent. And the exceptions are primarily there for their exceptional comedic talents.
not disagreeing with you - I find performative “wrestle drama” absolutely, mind numbingly pointless. my preference is to participate in (and ocassionally watch) unscripted combat sport.
however… I have trained competitive martial arts for decades (muay thai, bjj, others) and most of these “wrestling” participants are pretty skilled athletes. it takes training to turn combinations of techniques designed to injure into something reasonably harmless. there is a pretty fine line separating sparring from a fight.
I know you know this, but its still useful to remember that these players are actors as well as athletes and that can obviously be pretty inviting for a lot of viewers.
Okay, so as a teenager I was a super nerd and got into swords. I took olympic style fencing lessons first, then got into the ren faire and also did some stage combat. Sadly, I have health problems and I couldn’t keep my knees in place, and had to quit. The difference between those is probably the same difference between WWE style wrestling, and BJJ. One is done with choreography, one is a competition.
They’re both sports. I don’t understand why people think the choreography somehow means it doesn’t have skills or rules? It was the same skillset, different rules. Stage combat was unpadded and used heavier weapons that left more bruises when we fucked up the choreography. They’re different, sure, but the amount of overlap is underappreciated.
I don’t think all sports need to be contests, that’s just the most common association people have. Surfing and rock-climbing are still sports even if you never enter a competition.
Not all sports are games, if you cant quickly grab some friends and head out to play it, its not a game.
What athletic competition would not be a game if all sports are games? I mean, honestly, what is the difference you see between “sport” and “athletic competition”?
You can extend or contract “game” as much as you want, but I can’t think of a definition of game that would encompass all sports but not all athletic competitions (if there really is a difference).
What outlets do you follow?
Because this is the first I’m hearing about it.
