The foundation of the new policy is that New York state will be able to authorize first responders to forcibly hospitalize mentally ill New Yorkers who cannot meet their own basic needs such as food, shelter or medical care.
There is no due process or evidence before they are kidnapped in this instance.
If you ignore the due process and evidence I guess. This is for when police would have been dispatched to a mental health emergency.
They are homeless because they lack funds.
And they often lack the funds because of their severe mental illness that makes them unable to function properly in society. It’s hard to hold down a job (or even get one) when you think that everyone is a lizard person who is trying to take over the world and are laying eggs in peoples brains, because of severe mental illness.
I have suggested multiple times that they be given all social supports that are available to them. If they require that, they should be given that option.
And every time you’ve suggested that and people have asked “but what if they don’t take any of the help or suggestions” you’ve just gone “oh well that’s up to them because it’s a free country” and wiped your hands of it. That is not good enough, that’s why I’m saying that your solution is essentially “let them die in the streets”.
There are people that literally cannot take care of themselves due to mental illness. No matter how many services you offer them, it’s just more services that they won’t use. If the option is commit them and take care of them, or let them die, you’re saying let them die.
Your characterization of people suffering from mental illness or homeless people in general being violent
I didn’t characterize them “in general” as being that. It absolutely is a possibility, which is why I said “maybe”.
I’ll ask again - if a homeless severely, severely mentally ill person refuses all help, what do you suggest the government do?
If you ignore the due process and evidence I guess. This is for when police would have been dispatched to a mental health emergency.
A first responder is dispatched and kidnaps them. Where is the due process or evidence? Appearing mentally ill or being impoverished is not a crime or evidence of mental illness. A first responder is not a psychiatrist or able to diagnose somebody in such an environment.
And they often lack the funds because of their severe mental illness that makes them unable to function properly in society. It’s hard to hold down a job (or even get one) when you think that everyone is a lizard person who is trying to take over the world and are laying eggs in peoples brains, because of severe mental illness.
And who could blame them for thinking that? These are people that see first-hand the horrors of society and capitalism, of drug abuse and addiction. You can be unemployable in the US for different reasons than severe mental illness, like having a criminal conviction. Should they receive treatment for their delusions if it is imminently harming themselves or others, they are violent, or have committed a crime? Yes, it would likely be appropriate.
There are people that literally cannot take care of themselves due to mental illness. No matter how many services you offer them, it’s just more services that they won’t use. If the option is commit them and take care of them, or let them die, you’re saying let them die.
If they are a threat to themselves and others, have committed a crime, or are actively violent, they should be given due process and treatment they consent to prior to involuntary treatment.
I’ll ask again - if a homeless severely, severely mentally ill person refuses all help, what do you suggest the government do?
I’ve answered this in abundance. Re-read. It is the job of society and everybody in it to create a world that is less traumatizing, that is less exploitative, that nurtures every one of its members and helps them to unleash their potential. For individuals experiencing psychosis who are not violent, they should be given the option of an environment similar to a Soteria House.
A first responder is dispatched and kidnaps them.
This right here is why this is going nowhere. What you think happens and what actually happens are two very different things. This should have been apparent that it was not worth my time when you suggested that people would be locked up in a mental institution permanently simply for missing their rent.
A first responder is not a psychiatrist or able to diagnose somebody in such an environment.
And this new thing that you’re arguing in a comments section about aims to change that. This will change the first responders to being unarmed mental health professionals instead of armed police.
I’ve answered this in abundance. Re-read.
Ok cool so your solution is for the entire world to change to be something completely different, and for their mental illness to be just gone. In other words, it’s not a solution and you have no actual solution or answer to my question. Not all mental illness is caused by the environment around the person. Most of it isn’t.
So I’ll ask again but even more narrow in scope - what do you suggest the government do, with society and the world the way it is, with people that are severely mentally ill and homeless who refuse all help?
I didn’t suggest that people are locked up for “simply for missing their rent”. Never once did I suggest people are locked up permanently.
There are no mental health professionals that arrive on the scene. It could be EMT, firefighters, or police that initiate contact. None of the above are mental health professionals. A little training does not make you qualified.
