Comment by Lemminary@lemmy.world on Alright... but who's the bottom?

This is just homophobia, by the way

calls out a post for being homophobia topped with an extra serving of homophobia

less upvotes than someone who thinks “haha gay” isn’t homophobic

😒

Thanks for trying.

… you could just explain your logic you know.

It isn’t the general consensus.

you really can’t see how using sexuality to mock someone you hate is homophobic?

Calling a homophobe gay isn’t homophobia though, is it

it’s perpetuating the view that calling someone “gay” is somehow an insult.

Yeah, it is. It reinforces the idea that there is something wrong with a gay homophobe being gay, rather than the problem being that they are a homophobe.

you really can’t see how using sexuality to mock someone you hate is homophobic?

It’s not using sexuality to mock someone. It’s using hypocrisy to mock someone.

You know what’s the same thing? When gay men call each other fags or lesbians dykes. It’s taking what was intended as derogatory and flipping it around to celebrate it. It’s the ideal response to bullying assholes of any kind.

It’s not using sexuality to mock someone. It’s using hypocrisy to mock someone.

I guess it would make it okay to call a black right-winger an N-word and talk about how he can’t swim and only eats chicken and watermelon, then?

When gay men call each other fags or lesbians dykes

and I’m sure you know that not everyone is comfortable doing that because of their lived experiences. it’s awesome that homophobic jokes don’t affect you, but not everyone can distance themselves from them.

I guess it would make it okay to call a black right-winger an N-word and talk about how he can’t swim and only eats chicken and watermelon, then?

If you are black, yes, it would be ok. And many black people do. It’s the exact same defense mechanism.

and I’m sure you know that not everyone is comfortable doing that because of their lived experiences.

Then let them not be comfortable with it and let me and my people alone. Do not try to police my language just because perceive someone somewhere to have experienced some mild discomfort… and why? WHY DO I SAY THIS?

Because honey, they need to arm themselves against that discomfort. You need to have a shield and that shield is OWNING the words. If you let people who use derogatory words own them you have lost power.

Assuming good faith question: The (false) dichotomy of top/bottom implies a power dynamic in which the bottom is subservient to the top. In reality, it’s often a simple preference and bottoms can domineer just as well as tops. Some prefer it that way. And there’s more than top and bottom. Versatile is the obvious third option (no or changing preference for position) as well as side (prefers non-penetrative sex).

There’s this stereotype (may not be the right word) that extends from the above in that tops are more masculine or powerful by virtue of topping, due to the tie with being dominant. Thus bottoms are more feminine and subservient. All of that is false and represents the gay community in a pretty bad, oversimplified, sexist-somewhere-along-the-line way.

The dom/sub axis is not the same as the top/bottom axis (not really an axis).

It’s not just the top/bottom part that’s problematic, it’s the entire post. The punchline is “Trump and Elon are gay for each other, isn’t that funny?” which centers the idea that it would be bad or wrong for them to be gay for each other, perpetuating the conservative stereotype that there’s something wrong with being gay.

Good call, I missed it. We’ve got layers of shittiness in this meme.

Oh FFS.

We (gay people) have been pointing out the hypocrisy of homophobes with this sort of joke for ages and will continue to do it because it’s fucking hilarious. We are, in doing so, celebrating that it’s wonderful to be gay and sad that they don’t see that or see there at times in-the-closet-like behavior.

The last thing thing I need is a bunch of word police telling me what I can and cannot say.

You know who IS making it seem like there’s something wrong with being gay? People like you.

As a “joke” it treats being gay as derogatory. You’re welcome to make shitty homophobic jokes if you want to.

Nobody’s telling you what you can and can’t say. They’re telling you that what you said is in bad taste, and youre telling them to stop saying that.

Sure, but the joke here is turning the dumb jokes of the homophobes against them, right? Calling a homophobe “haha u’r gay n a bottom” is kinda using their homophobia against them, no?

Also, I’m gay myself. If someone said “haha, u like taking it up the ass”, I would be like, “sure I do!”. Say this to a homophobe n they would be incredibly offended. So ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯

But sure, I get why the morals of this aren’t so straightforward.

You aren’t wrong. It’s rather philosophical at that point. There’s the “don’t say it because it’s shitty angle” (quasi-mine, though mine was more a explanation vs a held belief) vs the “take it back from them” angle. Both have pros/cons and I’m not going to pretend I have the ‘perfect’ answer. The truth is probably that whichever is more effective/least damaging probably varies by context.

This is just absolutely ridiculous. It’s thought police over-engineering for clout.

It’s a dissection of why some people in the LGBT community may be offended. If you’re unwilling to try to see the perspective of others and choose to instead reject empathy, that’s a problem for you and the people around you. This internet stranger will continue to have a good day.

Also, clout? On Lemmy? Oh good, I’ve got the support of all 12 of us…

It’s a dissection of why some people in the LGBT community may be offended. If you’re unwilling to try to see the perspective of others

I don’t think you see the hypocrisy in your own comments.

Empathy would be you not trying to tell people what to think and say and being willing to see their perspective.

Also, clout? On Lemmy? Oh good, I’ve got the support of all 12 of us…

Hey maybe that’s meaningful to you. It certainly seems to be to many.

Are you part of the community?

Oh please do fuck off with that shit, Karen.

I remember when calling someone a Karen was a word with a meaning, specifically calling out bigoted white women - those who would punch down. This is the opposite; someone calling out bigotry.

This is just homophobia, by the way

Tell us you are not a gay man without telling us you are not a gay man.

Edit: Probably 85% of my social circle is some delicious flavor of queer. Kinda comes with being queer I guess. We make these jokes in part to normalize this sexuality and to make fun of hypocrites and bullies. It’s the same thing as when the kid in school says “that’s so gay” and you reply “oh really? You wanna get together later?”. This has come up a few times - the sensitivity of some groups to these kinds of jokes - and the conclusion is basically that people who object to them are generally either not queer or insecure about being queer and want to exert control over the conversation either to get cred with the community or to assuage their fears.

Just because you are gay does not mean you are not homophobic.

They likely meant that it’s a joke about power dynamics implying sexual preference. That is homophobic, but funny, but also homophobic.

In short, just cause you like it up your arse doesn’t mean you are a spineless idiot with no power. Instead Let people enjoy things and try to stop the spread of these stereotypes even in jokes. You never know who hears them and what social climate you might propagate into the heads of others and youth. If you are aware of these caveats you are allowed to make the most offensive jokes.

and the conclusion is basically that people who object to them are generally either not queer or insecure about being queer and want to exert control over the conversation either to get cred with the community or to assuage their fears.

You have some pretty intense coping mechanisms. What’s wild is I’d wager it’s much more effort to make up these stories than to actually understand the point being made, yet here you are.

You have some pretty intense coping mechanisms.

Talk to any queer person who lived through the 80s and 90s and you will find that desire to own the language of being queer was kind of a priority. I’ve been beaten, escaped rape, disowned by my family. So yeah figuring out how to cope was something we did.

You on the other hand?

What’s wild is I’d wager it’s much more effort to make up these stories than to actually understand the point being made, yet here you are.

Go FYS. No seriously. I paid for this with blood. You can fuck ALL they way off. You make NO effort yourself to understand why I say the things I say and why it’s so incredibly offensive to me to have someone try to police my language.

At some point, some people lose the ability (or never had it) to understand or care about the perspectives of others. Instead you get this knee jerk “anyone who is offended by what I say is the thought police and didn’t live my life, blah blah blah”. They never stop to realize that they didn’t live the other person’s life and they might have different, equally valid reasons for finding something offensive.

But no, it’s you being persecuted as you’re more entitled to say whatever you’d like and anyone who is offended should just shut the fuck up and deal with it. This sounds familiar… It’s what your lot’s MAGAs blather on about! Great job, you’re no smarter than a red hat. LOL

I’ll just leave this here:

They never stop to realize that they didn’t live the other person’s life and they might have different, equally valid reasons for finding something offensive.

Holy shit this is peak white cishet liberal lol

While you just have to assume I’m any or all of those, your commentary means I don’t have to assume you’re an idiot.

When some narc on the internet would say “no homo”, I liked to hit them back with a “yass homo”. Or “homo where?”

I’m gay. lol You don’t need to be upset on my behalf, thank you.

It’s an attack on their perception of the community, not the community.

It would seem that’s too complicated a concept for some folks.

Is that why he wears diapers?

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