feddit.org

-1 points

24 days ago

You’re still pretending that Trump ran a grassroots campaign? Even though that requires you to pretend Russian bot farms don’t exist? Even though Trump got help from billionaires that didn’t involve campaign financing? Why do you refuse to base your decisions on reality?

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pjwestin@lemmy.world

0 points

24 days ago

Show me data then. How much of Trump’s grassroots campaign is actually astroturfed Russian propaganda? What non-financial support did billionaires give Trump, and what are the quantifiable outcomes of that support. Say something other than, “[X] event happened, and this is my unsubstantiated opinion on how that changed the outcome of the election,” or just stop talking.

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-1 points

24 days ago

How much of Trump’s grassroots campaign is actually astroturfed Russian propaganda?

You’re asking for me to get specific to an unecessary level to pretend that Russians didn’t influence the elections because I can’t quantify it. Bad faith argument.

I can’t quantify how many times I took a shit in 2023. That doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.

What non-financial support did billionaires give Trump, and what are the quantifiable outcomes of that support.

Elon Musk holding a lottery like give away for people to vote for Trump is one example. There were other reports of business owners trying to find out who voted for democrats to intimidate them with threat of losing their jobs. Or sheriffs trying threatening people with Harris signs. Obviously it isn’t possible to know exactly how much these things influenced the outcome but that was your intention with the bad faith argument you’re making.

The fact that you can’t respond without bad faith arguments shows how bias and emotional your thought process is on the subject.

Not to mention you’re trying to change the subject after I pointed out that your links didn’t support your claims.

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pjwestin@lemmy.world

0 points

24 days ago

You’re asking for me to get specific to an unecessary level to pretend that Russians didn’t influence the elections because I can’t quantify it. Bad faith argument.

I can’t quantify how many times I took a shit in 2023. That doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.

Now that’s a bad faith argument. You’re the one that’s making all the claims. You’re claiming a Sanders campaign could never stand up to the money and influence of the billionaire class, and it’s you claiming all the evidence of Trump doing exactly that doesn’t count. And while I never said Russian interference didn’t affect the election, you’re the one claiming that it was so influential that it invalidated the grassroots nature of Trump’s campaign.

You’re the one making proclamations on why Sanders would lose and why Trump won, and you’re the one refusing to back it up with anything other than, “trust me bro.” So, again, back up any of your claims with actual evidence or just STOP TALKING.

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-1 points

24 days ago

You’re claiming a Sanders campaign could never stand up to the money and influence of the billionaire class, and it’s you claiming all the evidence of Trump doing exactly that doesn’t count.

I pointed out the fact that Sanders couldn’t win a primary without the added difficulty of funding a campaign.

That’s not a claim that’s a fact.

And while I neversaid Russian interference didn’t affect the election, you’rethe one claiming that it was so influential that it invalidated the grassroots nature of Trump’s campaign.

You’re the one claiming that Trump won because of a grassroots campaign without any evidence to support that. How can you verify a grassroots campaign is sole reason Trump won when there are Russian bots using social media accounts to tip the scales in his favor?

That’s called confirmation bias. You’ve provided no evidence of the claims you’ve made. While I have only stated facts.

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pjwestin@lemmy.world

0 points

24 days ago

You’re the one claiming that Trump won because of a grassroots campaign without any evidence to support that.

Not what I said. I said that Trump ran a grassroots campaign (which is true and I even linked to an article about it), which I brought up to refute this statement of yours: “I don’t think Bernie would get any air time if he was just funded by grassroots donations.” I didn’t say being a grassroots campaign was the cause of his win, just that it clearly wasn’t an obstacle for him. Given that Trump was successful with a grassroots campaign, and that both Harris and Clinton heavily outspent him, there is no reason to believe that Bernie wouldn’t be able to succeed as well on a grassroots campaign with less funding.

So far, the only argument against this you’ve been able to present is that Russia has trolls and billionaires exist. While those are technically facts, they’re not data that contradict any of my points. Since you don’t seem to have any of that, I think we’re done here.

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-1 points

23 days ago

So far, the only argument against this you’ve been able to present is that Russia has trolls and billionaires exist.

The facts I stated did more than prove they exists. The facts I stated prove they influenced they outcome of the election.

Your claim was that if I can’t quantify the exact amount of votes that Russian bots and billionaires were able to influence, you get to claim Trumps wins were strictly because he had a grassroots campaign.

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