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0 points

24 days ago

I used to think that, but really he won the center voter. He appealed on jobs, and inflation, and manufacturing, and all those things that are center. He really did get the center voter.

These aren’t centrist issues, these are just…issues. Like, jobs isn’t left, right, or center. It’s just something that matters to people. But trying to solve it by deporting 13 million people is far right.

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someguy3@lemmy.world

1 point

24 days ago

These aren’t centrist issues, these are just…issues.

… Which means they are issued that the center cares about.

Like, jobs isn’t left, right, or center. It’s just something that matters to people.

Seriously? You walked around the whole thing to (kinda) say they aren’t center issues, just to return to say they are issues that appeal to the center. They don’t need to be exclusively center issues. It just needs to win the center voter.

It’s an issue that the center is glued to and that the center wants and that the center voted for. So yes, Trump appealed to the center. And he won because he got the center voter. Yes Trump also appealed to the far right via what really aren’t even dog whistles anymore. But he also appealed up the center. And the center is how he won.

Like c’mon how many different ways do I have to put it to say that he appealed to the center, got the center voter, and won because of the center voters.

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1 point

24 days ago

I…I don’t really know what to say to this, dude. You’re just declaring things are, “center.” Like…jobs, inflation, and manufacturing are issues, but they’re not on a political spectrum. They’re usually seen as working class issues, since the loss of American manufacturing, increasing prices, and unemployment and low wages (assuming that’s what you mean by, “jobs,”) usually hurt the working class, but that doesn’t make them inherently right or left wing, and the lack of a political orientation doesn’t mean they’re, “center.”

Like, take manufacturing jobs. You can approach that from a left-wing position, and say that we need harsh tax penalties for companies that ship jobs overseas, or take a right-wing position, and say we need to deregulate manufacturing to make U.S. manufacturing cost less. A centrist position would probably look like tax-credits for companies that manufacture in the U.S. But when you say manufacturing is centrist, I have no idea what that means.

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someguy3@lemmy.world

0 points

24 days ago

they’re not on a political spectrum.

Again? Seriously? It does not need to be mutually exclusive. Do you know what I mean by that? Yes jobs, inflation, manufacturing, etc is not exclusively left, it’s not exclusively center, and it’s not exclusively right. WE AGREE ON THAT. JFC.

BUT those are the issues that won Trump the center voter. Those are the issues that convinced the center voter to vote for Trump. And that’s how Trump won, by getting the center voter. By appealing to the center voter on jobs, inflation, manufacturing, etc. Trump did that better than Harris on the center voter. I’m trying all the different ways to say this and I’m just repeating myself.

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2 points

24 days ago

OK, I get it now. You’re conflating people in the political center with centrism. People who consider themselves politically centrist may have voted for Trump because they liked his message in jobs and manufacturing, but it was not a centrist message. It was a far right message that included blaming immigrants for job losses and promoting isolationist trade policies. By comparison, Harris had a centrist policy of tax credits for small businesses, and that did not appeal to people who consider themselves the political center.

So, when I said, “Harris and Hillary’s losses in the general prove that Americans aren’t that centrist,” I mean that people are rejecting centrist policy measures. It has nothing to do with people in the center voting for him.

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someguy3@lemmy.world

0 points

24 days ago

but it was not a centrist message. It was a far right message that included blaming immigrants for job losses and promoting isolationist trade policies.

JFC Trump did both. I said this at the start.

First. He did the centrist message. Jobs, wages, inflation. Ok? Those are the messages that the center voted for Trump on.

Ok second. This is second. Separate from the first point. Second: He did a thinly veiled dog whistle to blame immigrants for everything. And everything I already said: yes it’s so overt that it’s not even a dog whistle anymore. And I already yes certain center voters should have seen through it. And that we on Lemmy can generally see through that, but apparently many people can’t. Like I said it all already.

So. What won Trump the election? What part pushed him over the edge to win? I’m saying it was the center voter. The center voter that voted for Trump because Trump appealed to the center voter on issues like jobs, inflation, manufacturing, etc. Those are the issues that the center cares about. And Trump appealed to them more on those issues than Harris appealed to them. JFC. How many times do I have to say the same thing.

Small business? Sounds good in theory but how many voters run a small business? Not enough. It has no appeal for the 99.9% of center voters that just work a standard job. You know what does appeal to the center voter? What Trump says about jobs, inflation, manufacturing. And we’re right back to the start.

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1 point

24 days ago

First. He did the centrist message. Jobs, wages, inflation. Ok? Those are the messages that the center voted for Trump on.

What in the Dunning-Kruger are you talking about? “Jobs, wages, inflation,” isn’t a fucking message, dude. It’s just three issues that you are assigning to moderates (I’m gonna start using, “moderates,” for voters in the political center, maybe that will help you, because you seem really confused). Maybe moderates claimed those were their biggest issues this cycle, but that doesn’t mean talking about them is, “doing the centrist message.”

Do you get the difference between an issue and a message? “Guns,” is an issue. A message is what you want to do about that issue. Gun control is considered a left wing message. Expanding gun rights is considered right wing. Modest regulations surrounding gun ownership is considered centrist. Do you see how saying, “He did the centrist message,” and then naming issues instead a message is fucking incoherent? Are you starting to understand the difference between talking about an issue that’s important to moderates and having a centrist message?

What won Trump the election? What part pushed him over the edge to win? I’m saying it was the center voter.

Oh my fucking God dude, no one’s disagreeing. It’s just not relevant to anything I was saying in the thread up until the point where you interjected. I was talking about centrist platforms being unpopular with the electorate, and you’re talking about Trump winning voters who consider themselves moderate. Do you get how those are two different things?

The first thing, the one I was talking about, is the centrist message the Democrats ran on. Ok second. This is second. Separate from the first point, is what you were talking about, which is how moderates voted this election. Do you see how those are different things? Do you see that I’m talking about policy and you’re talking about voter blocks? Do you get the difference yet?

Small business? Sounds good in theory but how many voters run a small business? Not enough. It has no appeal for the 99.9% of center voters that just work a standard job.

THIS IS LITERALLY MY WHOLE FUCKING POINT DUDE. It was a centrist policy! It’s a policy that didn’t go too far left or too far right. I agree that this centrist policy didn’t appeal to moderates; it didn’t appeal to anybody! That’s what I was literally saying in the comment you decided to jump in on.

You know what does appeal to the center voter? What Trump says about jobs, inflation, manufacturing. And we’re right back to the start

Yeah dude, and what did he say about those things? Not the issue, the message. Was it that American jobs were being stolen by migrants? Was it that manufacturing losses were the result of globalization, and that aggressive tariffs would fix that? Was it that reckless government spending through the American Rescue Plan was caused inflation? Do you see that, even if those issues matter to moderates, the message isn’t centrist, it’s far-right? Is any of this getting through to you?

I mean, Jesus Fucking Christ dude, I was trying to be nice at first, but Jesus Fucking Christ. It’s bad enough that you wasted this much fucking time because you couldn’t figure out the difference between moderate voters and centrist policies, but to actually be this condescending while you fumble around with terms you don’t understand is fucking unreal.

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