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5 points

So long as society feels it necessary to provide protections for women, the distinction has real consequences. Drawing a line anywhere is a tradeoff between inclusivity and effectiveness.

Taking the party line “high ground” stance of either conclusive self-determination or dodging the question entirely is why this question is so effective.

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6 points

I’m sorry, is “conclusive self-determination” the wrong answer? Why?

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5 points

Assuming good faith on the part of those involved, I don’t see how inclusivity comes at the cost of effectiveness. Would you care to elaborate?

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2 points

Assuming good faith, that’s a hell of an assumption

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1 point

Gendered bathrooms? It certainly does not require a lot of good faith to come up with this example.

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2 points

That’s a terrible example. Gendered bathrooms would still fulfil their function if anybody could use them regardless of gender, causing no measurable harm to anyone.

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1 point

Assuming I’m a bicycle, I’d have wheels.

Protections presuppose bad faith.

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4 points

What protections? Give me some concrete examples of what you’re talking about here.

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2 points

And your solution is what?

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2 points

Honestly? I think that equal treatment should be afforded regardless of gender. I also know that opinion is wildly unpopular, and so long as society expects unequal treatment there has to be hard conversations and hard decisions made to support those structures. You can’t have it both ways, and no amount of party-line fingers in your ears "wouldn’t you like to know"ing makes that go away.

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2 points
*

This would be nice if we lived in a vacuum an didn’t have thousands of years of patriarchy built up…

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-1 points

That was essentially what I was saying.

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2 points

Not the person who you were talking with, but I think it’s nuanced. Short term tradeoffs should be made for effectiveness, while long-term strategies should be relentlessly pursued for inclusivity.

E.g. as a man, I think that the women-only carriages in a lot of SEA countries are a necessary thing, but it has to be a short term solution with a healthier society should be always consistently pursued, for example with educational measures.

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