im convinced at this point that the “don’t vote or you support genocide” thing is a russian troll campaign
Pretty strong clues that it’s organized bullshit propaganda.
- negative against democrats while never mentioning republicans
- illogical since Trump is worse on the issue
- fails to address voting system issues that make 3rd party useless
- supporters rarely engage in real discussions and just repeat insulting slogans
It’s the same in my Eastern European country - Russians run two troll campaigns:
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to disenfranchise any pro-democratic voters, with slogans like “all candidates are shit and corrupt, you should hate them, politics, and the whole democratic process”
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to boost nationalist, far-right, anti-establishment parties - there are several of them to cast a wider net over the electorate, and they can assemble together to run their always pro-Russian politics after getting in Parliament
It’s the dame playbook everywhere they care to get results and undermine their enemies.
Or maybe people actually see what’s going on and see children get shredded with America’s permission, democratic permission, and with American bombs with American intelligence and say hey we don’t want this to happen anymore.
Maybe they see the party that is supposedly the “good” party brutally shut down protests against a genocide funded by them inside college campuses and think oh hey, that doesn’t seem like free speech.
Maybe they see a party just as bought out and in lockstep with billionaires and think oh hey, that’s not democracy.
Maybe they see a party that for two election cycles in a row has stolen the candidacy – more people wanted Bernie than Clinton in 2016 but they gave it to Hillary because why? “It was her turn”
Then when half the party was pissed and worried with Biden, did they hold a snap election? Like every other civilized developed country? Nah, they just said here you are, take kamala.
And kamala has just been like yes we will keep bombing kids.
Maybe Muslim Americans and other brown Americans are tired of for 25 years being both sides boogeyman. They just expect us to sit there and vote democrat while they spend 25 years telling everyone that they are terrorists, that they bomb places, that they hate America, that they are an other, a column that doesn’t matter. And if trump wins it will be their fault again. Not the fault of the 55% white people who somehow think that he’s okay.
Maybe you guys need to get your head out your asses and see that america is not a beacon on a hill, it’s a 300.year old empire that is crumbling into the gutter in front of you, and when empires do that, fascism follows. And you lot really need to realize that at this point, whether it’s Democrat or republican, it’s fascist. There is no choice, just the illusion of one. And again, democrats are as bought out by billionaires as the Republicans are.
It’s like going to the store and seeing 15 different varieties of the same candy but they’re all made by the same company and taste just ever so slightly different.
Probs not he’d probably want me dead if he saw what I’ve said about him Unless you’re saying you want everyone who disagrees with you to go get bombed?
Speaking of, how is what Putin is doing in Ukraine any different than what Israel is doing in Palestine?
In fact there have been less medics and journalists and civilians killed in the russia Ukraine war in the last what 3 years it’s been going on than israel murdered in the last year. Why is Biden saying that is illegal and everyone needs to listen to the UN, but when the same UN votes to censure Israel, it’s just crickets?
And Trump straight up said that Israel needs to “finish the job” and that the Gaza Strip will make his beachfront property. So yeah, be sick of what’s been going on. Most of us are. But also think of the consequences of the inactions if Trump becomes president. You’ll also have to deal with that.
What’s worse?
Kamala and Biden haven’t said finish the job, they’ve just given all the weapons and money anyway. They built a pier using billions of dollars saying it was for aid and then launched a massacre from the pier and then disabled it
They haven’t worked for a ceasefire they’ve vetoed every single one
I’m not saying vote for Trump. But the constant blackmail of oh if you don’t vote for one genocidal maniac you’ll get a worse genocidal maniac also doesn’t really seem like democracy does it?
I hold with what almost every peace keeper has said. If your uplift is rooted in another’s oppression, you are not free.
If the democrats really want to win, why not follow the will of the majority of the American people, who say they want an embargo of arms?
Why are the democrats courting Dick Cheney and a bunch of Reagan era politicians rather than listening to their voting base?
The fault isn’t going to be Muslim or black voters if kamala loses. It’s going to be the dems and the fact that they are not even a center left party at this point. They are what the Republicans used to be, and the republican party is now rabid and needs to be put down.
Are you aware that USA spend 10 times as much money on war and propaganda than russia does? The current government of USA is fueling a genocide in gaza and supporting the fascist israel government. There sure is russian propaganda too around but keep in mind that is in the interest of the government to cover up its wrongdoing and keep trust among the public.
We fucking know, dude.
That’s why we’re voting for Harris. And no, I’m not going to explain why for the 1000th fucking time.
That’s why we’re voting for Harris.
You are voting for them because "The current government of USA is fueling a genocide in gaza and supporting the fascist israel government. "?
I’m aware that the US government does propaganda too, yes. I have no idea what it has to do with this.
USA spend 10 times more money in war and propaganda than anyone else and they are being accused of supporting a genocide. Labeling as “russian trolls” these who are saying to not support the government or vote for criminals with blood on their hands sound more like the propaganda rather than people pointing the finger at war criminals.
Several of my alt accounts have been banned across the fediverse for calling out such nans. I figure if my alts get banned for that, then I should block them from my main.
(if anyone takes offense to me having “several” alts, that’s because without using 3rd party apps you can’t categorize interests like reddit’s multis feature without just having multiple accounts with their own sub list.)
80% Russian campaign and 20% reaction to being lectured constantly by people who will forget that progressive votes are needed to beat Republicans when it comes time to pick a new candidate.
I would agree. Its like 80% russian disinfo or israeli settlers (I would love to see the IPs here) and like 20% people who feel icky about voting for a dem and are doing mental gymnastics.
Progressive votes are already counted out. We know there will always be smug pseudo-intellectual “leftists” that will hold their vote as a threat to democracy if the don’t get their way with [current thing]. You do this every election year.
The problem is, you think people are going to give in to your demands when there is SO much more at stake than a war in a country you people couldn’t even locate on a map a year ago.
So no, you all can keep your votes. It’s too late to reason with trolls. The rest of us will be happy enough to not have to deal with you once you all disappear November 5th.
And what about the “vote for genocide or you support genocide-plus!” posts?
That’s called logic. And a firm understanding of how things work. But also, that comes from people that know Harris will do what she is able to stop it once she’s elected, but needs to play the game to have a chance for that to happen.
But you all know this already. Don’t you?
How have you concocted such a fantasy? What sign has Harris given that she will deviate one iota from the current policy towards Israel? You just wish it to be so. Even if this were somehow true, it is almost worse! “No, you see, I have to support genocide now, so I can win all the pro genocide votes, and then as soon as I’ve won, I’ll betray the people that elected me by stopping the genocide.” Smell the logic, lol.
I’ve seen many: ‘feel free to vote 3rd party, its okay to not support a genocidal candidate’ very few ‘dont vote or you support genocide’ are you sure you’re reading peoples posts correctly?
is it though? would you be in such a panic over the issue if people like me were not doing what we’re doing? no? would harris be suffering in the polls and struggling if not for us telling everyone exactly what we’re going to do and why?
Would they have bothered trotting out bernie to ‘reason with us’? you know what harris needs to do to get our votes. the question is are you so callous that you’d support a genocide instead of telling harris and the DNC to stop being shit stains? the vote are here she just needs to take them.
there isnt anything for you to fear if you reach out and embrace your arab and jewish brothers and sisters. why are you trying so had to enable a genocide when you can just… not. you can still vote for harris in the end if you really want, I dont mind. its your vote. but couldn’t you just… try? even a little bit? maybe lie to a pollster about your support, email your critters daily this week? maybe follow through and vote 3rd party or leave the president blank if you’re in a 20+ blue state.
We’re not responsible for harris’ genocidal positions. she is. she chose this. she can also not chose it. we’ll welcome her back to the family when she does.
Same thing. The fact that most of these accounts, very similar to your own, are new accounts speaks volumes.
its really not. ever heard of the saying: ‘its the journey, not the destination?’ maybe you should just try putting an ounce of effort into not supporting a genocide. even if that just means lieing to a pollster about your support for harris. make her sweat a little. maybe even at the end of the day change her position.
trust me its pretty easy. I’m doing putting that ounce in right now. emailing my critters, casting my 3rd party vote, dealing with you twits who are blinding running off a cliff for fear of trump and enabling a genocide in the process. I don’t expect you to go as far I do but thats okay. I dont mind if you vote for harris. I mind that she supports genocide. I mind she doesn’t support labor. I’m willing to sacrifice some of those things to avoid trump. but I’m not willing to leave her unbloodied while she supports a genocide.
We’re not responsible for harris’ genocidal positions. she is. she chose this. she can also not chose it. we’ll welcome her back to the family when she does.
Been saying it for weeks. Nobody with half a brain would fall for that shit.
A vote against Harris is a vote against protecting America. That may not be true next election(fuck, I hope it’s not), but right here…right now…it’s true.
You don’t need much of a brain to understand that voting and supporting criminals with blood on their hands is bad. You also don’t need to be too smart to understand that your choice isn’t limited to vote between two colors.
You also don’t need to be too smart to understand that your choice isn’t limited to vote between two colors.
I mean… you said it.
But I agree, only idiots believe that third parties are viable in our broken electoral saystem
It will absolutely true next election. Democrats will keep undermining progressives and running weak and ineffective candidates until the dice fall badly and the fascists win. That’s how these cycles always go.
Every election will be more dangerous than the one before until elections stop. The next Trump will be far more capable than the rapist toddler we’re dealing with now.
Nobody with half a brain would fall for that
it’s a lot of good people on the far left side of twitter
Where we need to take America doesn’t need extremists, of any kind.
I don’t have a problem when Americans dislike abortions. I do have a problem when they try to take the option away from Americans.
I don’t have a problem with people protesting civil rights violations. I do have a problem with Americans rioting and killing each other.
Extremism of any kind is toxic and has no place in a stable future. That’s because all extremism is born out of a strong emotional desire or need from the people.
IMO the only way out of this is to stomp out the conservative extremist fires and roll back the damage they’ve done. Only this will appease the extreme left enough for them to walk back from the line.
Progress forward is a balancing act that requires a soft touch. Unfortunately we had four years of a crude daft orange ogre that destroyed that balance.
As long as we make it through the next two months, we should be fine. Extremists can’t do anything against a mind they can’t manipulate. Just don’t fall for the emotional trap.
Stay calm, stay vigilant, stay in control.
I’ve got a question for you… I’m sure you are familiar with the famous, “First They Came” sermon/poem/whatever by Martin Niemöller? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_…
At what point during that poem would you consider a genocide underway? Would it be when they started murdering all of the communists? Or maybe after they eliminated all of the trade unionists?
Let’s extend that poem to include all of the categories of people that the Nazis killed:
They started with trans people, was it a genocide yet? How about after they started including homosexuals?
Maybe it becomes a genocide when they go after the mentally and physically disabled?
Or does it only become a genocide when they go after the Jews?
Obviously, the answer is all of the fucking above.
Guess what: Genocide very much can and does get worse. Much much worse. This concept that it is all or nothing is completely ahistorical and illogical.
Guess what: Genocide very much can and does get worse. Much much worse.
Sounds like you agree it’s bad enough now to want to stop it.
Campaign locally to change the system - we need more places to use preferential voting like ranked choice before third parties will matter.
Until that happens, you can either work within the system that does exist or decide that your feelings matter more than the results 🤷♂️
Yes, the system sucks, and we should do what we can to fix it.
What is also important is Order of Operations. It will be much harder (if not impossible) to effect any positive change on the systems that be if the orange orangutan wins the election, while those changes will be at least possible under the leadership of the blue candidate.
I like to think that people who are not able to figure this out are victims of republican/russian propaganda. To think otherwise would be both depressing and enraging and I have too much of my own shit going on to deal with any of that.
That’s been my experience on Lemmy recently too. It feels like there is a push to disenfranchise to “teach them a lesson we dont support genocide by ensuring a somewhat more genocidal maniac gets in instead”.
I get the sentiment, but it ignores the two party system, and not voting does not fix that broken system, it ensures it. And I think the trolls know this too.
