Sigh. if you’re going to be so insistent. first lets start with tossing out GDP as a metric its useless. it measures production not happiness/societal fullfillment. those two things are very different. If you want to use china as a pillar of socialist utopia… well, sorry thats not going to fly.

secondly: at least use comparable countries. comparing the USSR to the UK and on top of it using percentages. my god. did anyone teach you anything about maths?

(the problem is in what 0% represents as a baseline the higher the baseline is the less room it has to grow, and the USSR and the UK didn’t start out at the same baseline)

third: cite your sources if you want to play the numbers game.

fourth: you and I clearly have different definitions of central planning, you have a particular definition and mine is a general ‘small number of people making the calls’ both late stage capitalism and what you’re article you linked to are the same thing in all but how those individuals are selected. to me there is no difference there. they’re both equally bad ideas.

You’re foolish because you think marx had the answers to the problem of the class war. he didn’t… You’re never going to convenience people to risk dramatic upheaval. Most people are not wired that way. hence marxist ideas and in particular the revolutionary followers such as yourself dont understand human nature. The US is not at that point yet, it has to get significantly worse for such triggers to be effective.

re central planning: late stage capitalism and you’re marxist idea of public property are the same levels of centralized planning. the fact you don’t realize that is… sad. again you also don’t need such a system. it limits diversity in ideas and development. even if you take over the means of production in a capitalist economy, who says you’re going to do any better than the current crop of oligarchs? fundamentally I don’t believe you will.

also the very same weakness of capitalism you hope to exploit are the same weakness your society will have because its just as centralized. I really hope you realize this.

As for the PRC… its not even 100 years old yet; and has a fair amount of problems; primarily the fact its run by a dictator. the USSR didn’t last a 100 years. so lets just say if those are your examples for thriving socialist countries I’ll pass on your vision.

Essentially my fundamental point is you need to figure out how to build the system without centralized planning and organization and a robust immune system to bad actors; and marxist from everything i’ve seen/been shown isnt that.

how to clarify the two adjectives I used for marxism and yourself mmmm… I’ll try but these are things I usually spend months on deprogramming people like yourself.

idealistic: thinking you can just wrest away control from capitalists without broad support, which you certainly don’t have, and the naive assumption your central planners will be better than the current catch we already have. No thanks winni I’ll pass.

inflexible: soon as your centralize anything in a system you make it harder to experiment or course correct. why? because everything that depends on that centralize system needs to be changed in order to support the changes. lets take something as simple as deciding to build a park. if public spaces are centrally planned then who decides what kind of park it is? me? my neighbor? my town? my state? what about what gets researched? who gets the supplies to do their research? what if the individual doing the resource allocation is corrupt or doesn’t understand the new ideas? what if they find a particular approach like fetal stem cells objectionable?

and the personal attack is because you’re as inflexible as marx was in his thinking you think he had the answers and you rely on him as an authority and puritan authority. sorry but appeals to authority don’t matter to me. You shouldn’t need to appeal to marxism to demonstrate the validity of your ideas. tell me what particular bits you plan on changing and how. the good thing about living in a democracy is you can effect these things at a local level. the PSL is doomed from the start because it doesn’t understand the problems or the people its trying to convince and as a result it doesn’t understand how to manipulate systems and there isn’t wide spread repression (yet) to get people angry enough to be supportive.

Now I’ve spent enough time corresponding with you and I’m going back to fiddling with my mushrooms they’re far more interesting than talking to a soldier tripping over their own firearm in their enthusiasm. but I suggest you research into using random processes and their effects on creating robust systems, there are examples in compute science, biology, law, governance, maybe it’ll enlighten you the the power of distributed systems over centralized. 👋