feddit.org

2 points

2 days ago

absolutely is unless there is a plan to replace the system. hence all of my original points around her lack of coherent plans that address actual needs of the people.

You read the party platform of PSL. PSL has coherent plans.

breaking the current system without sound ideas on how the new system will operate is destruction for destruction sake.

That isn’t what’s happening.

breaking the current system without sound ideas on how the new system will operate is destruction for destruction sake.

You keep arguing against strawmen.

I dont need to, those are my opinions you can take or leave them as you will. or just watch the election play out and get your answer. =)

That’s fine, you just have no coherent plans for establishing Socialism.

report

[ - ]

jatone@lemmy.dbzer0.com

0 points

2 days ago

you’re welcome to link to resources. I checked out her campaign site it wasn’t interesting and i explained why each point will fail. I dont particularly care to spend my time beyond that digging to decide if she was is worth my time, determined she isn’t. The campaign site is incoherent as far as plans go. if you want to goal post shift to PSL in general feel free to do so and i’ll tell you what i think but otherwise. 🤷 if you want support you need to do the effort to earn it. ;)

report

[ - ]

PSL is DemCent, the party platform is her platform.

2 points

2 days ago

report

[ - ]

jatone@lemmy.dbzer0.com

0 points

2 days ago

quick scan looks like a non-starter for me but good luck! anything where economy is centrally managed is a horrible idea, and something marx got very wrong its essentially what we have now just with a different person in charge. 🤷

report

[ - ]

2 points

2 days ago

What a fantastic way to say you have no idea what Marxism is, nor how Socialism is different from Capitalism. Consider reading Why Public Property?

Central Planning is the only way forward.

report

[ - ]

jatone@lemmy.dbzer0.com

0 points

2 days ago

because I dont give a shit about marxist. its mostly nonsense. he identified the root problem but failed to understand human nature or how to build robust economies/systems. just because you’re blinded doesn’t mean every socialist is as foolish. centralized planning is what we have today in late stage capitalism, and its what caused communist societies to collapse under the corruption they foster. like i said good luck in your idealistic vision it’ll never work because its inflexible and misses the point.

edit: now i was a little terse there sorry. anyways I dont need you to give me an expose on marxism. its strictly unnecessary. is where the PSL is claiming to require a planned economy. which is a bad idea and thats what I was reacting to; its what we have today and its ripe for corruption. any socialist movement is going to have to learn to reject centralized structures beyond a certain size.

if the goal is to prevent wealth accumulation/ensure the needs of the workers are met, there are other methods to do so that dont require a planned economy.

now I suggest you go spend your efforts on another individual, theres no more play here for you. but again I recommend PSL spend its effort on state level efforts and show their model can work. there is some okayish ideas there they just need to prove them first but there is also a lot of things we already have available.

report

[ - ]

2 points

2 days ago

because I dont give a shit about marxist.

I can gather.

its mostly nonsense

Not at all, it’s entirely relevant and correct.

he identified the root problem but failed to understand human nature or how to build robust economies/systems

Can you elaborate? What did Marx fail to understand about Human Nature? What about Marxism goes against robust economies and systems? The largest economy in the world is run by Marxists today.

just because you’re blinded doesn’t mean every socialist is as foolish

Weird personal attack, you have yet to make a concrete point, just wildly gesture.

centralized planning is what we have today in late stage capitalism, and its what caused communist societies to collapse under the corruption then foster

Funny, you are almost correct. The fact that markets trend towards consolidation and monopolization makes themselves ripe for public ownership and central planning. This is exactly why Marx said Socialism succeeds Capitalism, the older the Capitalist system gets, and the more it consolidates itself, the more effective public siezure and central planning will be. The issue is that late stage Capitalism isn’t yet Central Planning because it’s still privately owned and operated for profit. This is something the article I linked you explains in detail, if you wish to learn more.

Additionally, your point on central planning collapsing AES is false. Many AES states still exist, in fact Central Planning is what caused the PRC to skyrocket in growth. It was also extremely effective in the USSR until later in its existence, where it struggled due to establishing planning by hand, and failing to transition to computerized planning adequately as the economy got increasingly complex, resulting in liberalization that further went against the efficiency of central planning. Despite this, the economy had great growth over its existence and dramatically lowered wealth inequality:

like i said good luck in your idealistic vision it’ll never work because its inflexible and misses the point.

I’m not sure what you mean by Marxism being “idealistic,” “inflexible,” or how it “misses the point.” What do you mean by any of that?

now i was a little terse there sorry. anyways I dont need you to give me an expose on marxism. its strictly unnecessary. is where the PSL is claiming to require a planned economy. which is a bad idea and thats what I was reacting to; its what we have today and its ripe for corruption. any socialist movement is going to have to learn to reject centralized structures beyond a certain size.

You have explained none of this, we do not have a planned economy now nor is it correct to reject central planning.

report