Comment by Tangentism@lemmy.ml on ‘They will vote against Harris’: Arab Americans in Michigan desert Democrats over Gaza

cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ml/post/21396125

Stephen Starr in Hamtramck, Michigan
Mon 14 Oct 2024 11.00 EDT

You think they’re voting for trump? If so, you’re even dumber than you think they are

I mean, it’s not like there’s any other viable candidate. I don’t like the two party system but it’s what we have and by voting any other way than Harris, it gives advantage to Trump.

Her shitty policies and attitude toward the genocide of people in the Levant is what’s giving trump an advantage!

Her shitty attitude towards people calling on her not to support the genocide is what’s giving trump an advantage.

She had it in the bag when she called him weird but you can always rely on a democrat to steal defeat from the jaws of victory!

And you know for sure that democrats are going to turn on minorities and leftists once she loses the election rather than face up to the fact that they did everything themselves to avoid winning it.

This is question-begging a number of critical elements, e.g. that the “rafts” cannot be influenced by “passenger” input, and that there is only this one, totalizing crossroad of literal, immediate survival.

We can do it too:

You’re in a runaway train accelerating toward a cliff and the break only really stops acceleration, it doesn’t decelerate. You can sit in the engine room and hold down the break, and you’ll live longer, but you aren’t changing the fundamental dynamic of the situation, which ends in your eventual death. Conversely, you can jump off the train, surely injuring yourself, possibly crippling yourself, maybe even killing yourself, but it’s the only potential way to change the dynamic of being doomed to fall off the cliff.

Does this prove anything? No, it’s just a model of how some people think of the problem, not an argument. It would be really obnoxious and disingenuous to present it as an argument.

Maybe we should see if there’s any point of agreement, one step at a time.

Do you agree that either the Dem or Rep nominee will be the next president?

When I said:

and that there is only this one, totalizing crossroad of literal, immediate survival.

This was me saying “It frames things as though losing the election means that all is lost and there won’t be future elections.”

As I’m pretty sure I explained to you an hour ago in another thread, I think it’s an acceptable loss for the Democrats to lose an election to put pressure on them to change or else to establish that they are more loyal to the US project of Israel than they are to trying to win elections or do what voters want or anything like that.

I don’t proactively want Trump to win, but I find it totally acceptable since what sets him apart from other Republicans is not that he is especially fascist in the substance of what he is likely to do. It might actually be possible to browbeat me if we had a Tom “throne of Chinese skulls” Cotton or someone as the nominee, he actually represents something that could be totalizing to me, but Trump is just kind of a deranged grifter and Vance is a more even-keel grifter.

So to save us both time, no, I don’t think we agree on any points. I wasn’t commenting toward that end, I merely wanted to say that the comic is unhelpful.

False dichotomy and incorrect question. It doesn’t matter who wins the next presidency. the general outcomes will be the same.

will both candidates break strikes when convenient to their corporate overlords? yes. will both candidates continue to drain our economy by not reforming health care/holding corporations accountable? yes. (as demonstrated by harris’ unwillingness to commit to keeping khan) will both candidates continue to support israel wholeheartedly? yes.

the only different is the speed of the decline. frankly I’m done emotionally suffering because the national democrats are shit people. you’re welcome to your positions and beliefs I just have no interest in supporting them when all they do is cause more harm to my communities. I also live in a blue bastion, harris’ will win here regardless of my actions and my local government will more or less prevent the worst of trumps nonsense for my community.

Do you agree that either the Dem or Rep nominee will be the next president?

Do you agree that theres no excuse possible for aiding in a far right wing genocide?

This except the raft has a bunch of holes in it, is covered in blood, and by setting foot in it you are implicitly giving your consent to fund a genocide on the other side of the world, and then the raft sinks anyways in the last panel.

edit: Bright side, the water may not actually be that deep. At least it’s certainly not as deep as the peoples’ whom you would have sacrificed by getting on the raft. That’s just what people tell you, but they also told you the raft would be perfectly seaworthy in its battered state.

A more accurate metaphor would be if the raft was uninflated and full of holes.

passenger 1 - “Oh crud. Our boat is sinking. We are in great peril indeed.”

captain - “We’re going to be okay everyone, just get into this liferaft.”

Pulls out liferaft with a huge fucking hole in it.

passenger 1 - “Is this the only liferaft we’ve got?”

captain - “Yes, but don’t worry about the hole, it won’t sink and we’ll be fine I promise.”

passenger 2 - “Hey guys, I have a liferaft over here that doesn’t have a hole in it.”

captain - “Guys, that’s not important right now. Our boat is sinking.”

passenger 1 - “Eh, I guess I’ll go in that one.”

passenger 3 - “Sure me too, captain says we should - wait where’s captain?”

Looks up, in the distance sees captain floating away on functional liferaft.

captain - “So long fuckers!”

Passengers board remaining liferaft, liferaft sinks, the passengers die.

Where you fucked up:

passenger 2 - “Hey guys, I have a liferaft over here that doesn’t have a hole in it.”

You can’t reach the other one with no holes.

One of 2 things is happening with this comment.

You actually don’t know how FPTP voting works.
You’re pretending to not know how FPTP voting works.

Captain represents capitalists falsely promising to fix our problems

Broken liferaft is the false promise (i.e. voting is going to fix our problems despite genocide, imperialism, deporting illegal immigrants, hurting homeless people, fracking, etc)

Fixed liferaft is what actually will save us (i.e. food, housing, healthcare, etc)

While everyone is hyperfocused on who to vote for, the capitalists take the rest of the food/housing/healthcare and everyone else dies.

I will note your liberal dem in this comic also didn’t get in the raft through their own inability to take the correct path regardless of the choices of others. which I think is pretty spot on for individuals like yourself.

I think that’s a statement about how other people’s shitty voting decisions affect everyone.

Believe me, if I could just choose the president (life raft) myself with no other input, I would.

na, it just demonstrates the yours/the artists inability to act independently from a group. what have you done to change the voting system? probably nothing. so take your nonsense elsewhere.

‘They will vote against Harris’: Arab Americans in Michigan desert Democrats over Gaza(www.theguardian.com)

United States | News & Politics

!usa@lemmy.ml

Community stats

Community moderators