Bayer’s Monsanto was ordered to pay more than $1.5 billion Friday over claims its patented weed-killer, Roundup, was linked to users’ cancer, Bloomberg reported.
James Draeger, Valerie Gunther and Dan Anderson were each awarded a total of $61.1 million in actual damages and $500 million each in punitive damages by jurors in state court in Jefferson City, Missouri.
The three people alleged that their non-Hodgkin’s lymphomas — a type of cancer that begins in your lymphatic system, part of the body’s immune system — were caused by years of using Roundup while gardening.
I’ll grant an argument need not require a source, but even you admit it’s a weak one. I don’t accuse this individual specifically as a shill, I just don’t consider it worth my time and find them somewhat ignorant on the subject-matter. I’m referring to a specific community that included self-professed shills who literally worked for said companies as mouthpieces. Literally can’t get more shill than that.
You’re what you hate, not separate from it.
I’m not because I don’t take a paycheck and have zero skin in the game. The burden is on the user above to source their claims and we go from there. They did not.
It’s interesting that it’s not worth your time to make an actual argument, or ask for sources because you don’t think the argument is complete, but it is worth your time to defend not making an argument and making vague accusations of subs filled with self professed shills and other less forthcoming shills descending upon any post critical of glyphosate.
The latter, of course, you’ve provided no evidence for and thus by your own metric is a weak argument. Again, you are what you hate.
Teaching you fundamentals of argumentation and rhetoric to me is worth a little bit of my time. It is, of course, not your decision to decide what is and isn’t worth my time.
Bear in mind that my original comment wasn’t intended to mount an anti-glyphosate position; for I’ve very little interest in divesting the time into that at the moment (been there, done that). I was simply ranting out loud about a negative experience I had with vitriolic brigaders who openly admitted to shilling and taking a paycheck from the very company in question; a notable conflict of interest that would taint anyone’s perception in matters of controversy that might jeopardize their very own paycheck. After all, we saw precisely the same behavior from Tobacco companies for decades until they were thoroughly eviscerated. Anyways, that’s not really an argument I need to defend; it’s merely an observation from a personal experience I’m throwing out in the void, which evidently, many others here shared a similar experience. The user who volunteered to defend glyphosate mounted a point utterly tangential to the original subject-matter at hand, which is why I think it was down-voted. I thought their defense was very amateur, argumentative-wise — especially if they’re a scientist in that field. I’d expect better. So if that’s the starting-point, I’m very skeptical over it being worth investing further time. Sorry, take it or leave it.
Meanwhile observe how your own cognitive bias taints your perspective, here. You came to the user’s defense and yet absent of any compelling argument — for which you openly admitted yourself — did you advise they provide a source? Of course you didn’t.
Teaching you fundamentals of argumentation and rhetoric to me is worth a little bit of my time.
When you start doing this, lmk, because at this point you’ve not done anything that could even remotely be considered teaching anyone anything about argumentation and rhetoric.
It is, of course, not your decision to decide what is and isn’t worth my time.
Nor did I say it was. I was just pointing how what you think is worth your time exposes strange priorities.
Bear in mind that my original comment wasn’t intended to mount an anti-glyphosate position;
This is exactly what I pointed out: you provided an empty position, the other person made an argument. . .and that poster was piled on (while hilariously other people were whining about being “piled on”).
Anyways, that’s not really an argument I need to defend
This is an extremely subjective statement as no argument in a non-formal setting really needs to be defended. But if you are making factual claims of subs filled with shills, and shills descending on you whenever you made a point, then you are making statement of facts that can be cited or supported, so to turn around and whine that other people aren’t making strong arguments because they didn’t source their facts. . .well, it’s terribly hypocritical.
The user who volunteered to defend glyphosate mounted a point utterly tangential to the original subject-matter at hand, which is why I think it was down-voted.
The submission is literally about a lawsuit over glyphosate causing cancer. Posting about shill-brigades piling on is actually “utterly tangential” to the actual point. And they were all upvoted. Someone actually talked about the topic, whether it actually causes cancer, and you’re claiming the reason they were downvoted was for being off topic. Wow. It’s like every accusation is an admission.
You came to the user’s defense and yet absent of any compelling argument — for which you openly admitted yourself — did you advise they provide a source? Of course you didn’t.
You are the one who brought up the fact that their position is weak because it was unsourced, all I did was point out the hypocrisy of this. I understand that this is an informal debate setting and that people aren’t going to generally cite every claim they make. So you’re right, of course I didn’t, because they weren’t the ones hypocritically demanding sources.
I have a top MSc in agricultural science 😂
I just know from experience these exchanges don’t go anywhere productive, everybody has already made their mind up.
Not sure how that degree makes you an expert in toxicology or cancer research, but I sure hope you’ve not made your mind up about Roundup being safe. I’m not saying it’s not (the WHO is) but from experience I’ve found that treating potentially cancer causing chemicals with extra care is less likely to well…give you cancer.
But I’m willing to hear your side. Just fyi I don’t think the argument “it’s the best we got right now or people starve” is any stronger than saying “we can’t switch from lead pipes, the people will die of thirst”.
My BSc was in pharmacology which gives me a passing familiarity with those subjects. My conclusions aren’t faith-based - any strong evidence, especially toxicology data, would certainly change my mind.
I think the average agricultural worker should be much more concerned about, for example, silicosis. That’s legitimately scary and ruins countless lives.
I work with dangerous machinery and chemicals all the time and my position at present is that glyphosate is orders of magnitude less dangerous than many common household solvents and cleaning products.
Well hey, fair enough! For fun, can I challenge you on that notion? Screenshot of diploma w/ username? 😁
I’m at work - I actually do have a photo of the certificate on my phone but as you point out, that could be anybody’s. I know it must seem incredibly convenient, particularly considering the added relevance of my first degree. But I wouldn’t have bothered weighing in otherwise, so there’s a huge selection bias at play. I also managed an organic vegetable farm for three years, which I can’t prove either.
