Iām not sure ārespectā is the word Iād chose, but āsupport,ā sure. As Iāve said before, you have the right to write in āBozo the Clownā for president; itād have as much impact, but itās your vote.
However, I will not stop trying to convince people to not make the mistake I made in 2000. I hated Tipper Gore because of her involvement in the founding of the PMRC, and didnāt want her anywhere near the White House. So I voted Green Party. I take resposibility that my vote, which would otherwise have gone to Gore (if Iād been smarter) and contributed to the election of Bush Jr. and consequently the invasion of Iraq (I believe Afghanistan was inevitable after 9/11, but Iraq was opportunistic Jingoism). My āprotestā vote, among a wave of other protest votes, contributed to a needless war and very likely led to politics and policies that ultimately resulted in the Trump Presidency.
Maybe youāre able to divorce yourself from responsibility, and blame other people for your actions; if you vote for Stein and Trump wins, youāll blame Democrats - youāve said as much elsewhere. Thatās an attitude I have no respect for. Take responsibility for the consequences of your own actions, and if the greater of two evils wins, at least have the ethical fortitude to admit you helped it happen through your vote.
I donāt say all of this for you, but for any other person considering a protest votes: please look back at the 2000 election and the measured analysis of the impact of spoiler parties and the subsequent ripple effects which have led to today.
As your yourself, Iām still not convinced youāre not an agent saboteur; your posts consistently target Democrats more than Republicans, and if you were a true Green Party activist, youād be attacking Trump and Republicans more than any Democrat. The Democratic party plank aligns far more with the Green party than does the Republican partyās; the current conservative agenda is supposedly completely counter to the Green partyās, and yet Jill Stein and her supporters target Kamala more than Donald because thatās where they know they can siphon votes. And this is the very definition of a spoiler in a FPTP election system.
but itās your vote.
It is.
Iām still not convinced youāre not an agent saboteur;
The majority of my posts are socialist, and yes, I do critique both sides. The reason it might seem like Iām targeting Democrats more is simply because the majority of Lemmy users lean Democratic, and they often assume that not supporting their candidate means supporting Trump.
Iāve contributed over 200 posts and comments to my Lemmy socialist community. Iām a member of the Socialist Workers Party, and I support them financially. You can check out the sub here:
https://lemmy.world/c/socialist
and see my post history here:
https://lemmy.world/u/UniversalMonk?page=1&sort=New&view=Posts.
I also post and moderate communities on education, another thing Republicans typically dislike. Even in this sub, my posts are mostly news articles about third parties, not attacks on the Democratic party. When I share articles about third parties, Libertarian ones are included, and they often take votes away from Republicans.
So, would I really do all thisāthings Republicans despiseājust to help Trump win? If that were my goal, wouldnāt it be easier for me to just vote for him?
Why is it that just because Iām not voting for your candidate, you automatically think Iām rooting for Trump? I get daily comments and DMs accusing me of being a Russian simp, a Trump supporter, or a trollājust because I post socialist articles, mainly about unions, and a few posts covering all third parties. Think about that.
Regarding your claim that I would blame Democrats if Trump wins because I voted for SteināIāve never said that. What I have said is that if Democrats are so concerned about Stein, they should find a stronger candidate and work harder to incorporate Green values, welcoming Green supporters into their party. Iām a good example.
Many here find out Iām voting for Stein, and instead of welcoming me, they accuse me of being a Russian Trumper troll. Does that make me want to join your party?
And a side note: Republicans hate me too, because of my socialist views. But honestly, theyāre not nearly as hostile as Democrats are towards meāprobably because Lemmy is overwhelmingly Democratic.
This sub often has to remove comments directed at me because of how uncivil they are. Check out this subās modlog for proof and an example of some Dem-generated hate. Youāll see a some ugly comments by Republicans, but the vast majority are Democrats hating and belittling people who have a different point of view than they do: https://lemmy.world/modlog/1252
What you and others miss is that while you have a right to advocate for whatever political positions you wish, we have a right to call them out and point out that in the system we have, the Jill Steins spoil the election for Donald Trump, just like the Libertarian spoils Trump (though realistically, Libertarians can take votes from both Major Parties for different reasons). You do NOT have the right to push your agenda unchallenged.
I disagree with the civility rule because there are Republicans and Russians posing as far-Leftists to push enough left-leaning voters to vote third party so that Trump can steal enough states by hook or by crook to win it and subject all of us to Project 2025. The civility rule has us fighting with one hand behind our back against factions that see no problem with being uncivil to us and will use our rules to censor our speech about them.
Since I canāt call people out on this sub, the only answer I have now is to point out every single time one of you people pop in with this ānuh, we arenāt spoiling itā is my example of how, yes, you are. So, here it is again.
This poster would have you believe that your vote cannot result in you getting the worst possible outcome. Allow me to make it clear that yes, you can screw yourself and those you care about if you make the wrong choice on your vote.
Letās take a class of High School students. The class is pretty evenly divided between Jocks (49) and Nerds (51), and thereās an election for the SGA coming up. Looking at the numbers, it looks like the Nerds have a good chance of winning, by two votes, but letās say that this isnāt as clear as the numbers show.
The candidates are pretty distasteful for a lot of students at the school. On the Nerdsā side is a geeky boy, with square glasses, buck teeth, and a taste for pocket protectors. This kid is stereotypical Nerd, with the personality to match. Heās vaguely unpalatable, being too much into D&D and video games, but heās also really damn smart, and his platform are things the Nerds would really like ā pushing the school to fund after-school activities like Book Swap, the D&D Club, Debate Team, Chess Club, and so on.
On the Jockās side is a pretty blonde cheerleader, the Homecoming Queen and heart-throb for many a boy in that school. But sheās a massive jerk, with an entitlement streak a mile wide, known for throwing temper tantrum(p)s when she doesnāt get her way, and a platform that includes taking all the money that would have gone to the nerdy after-school activities and putting it into prom and sports.
Of course, this stereotypical school of the 1980s will use the voting system used by the USA back in the 1980s, the classic voting system of First Past the Post, where all the votes are counted, and at the end, the one with the most votes wins.
In a 49 to 51 election, itās clear that the Nerds win by a squeaker, but thatās not how elections work in the USA, and Cheerleader has a secret weapon. Most of her friends are of course fellow cheerleaders, dance team members, and athletes. But counted among her number is a bookish girl who is good with her studies, someone that were you to glance at her, youād assume sheās with the Nerds. But she and Cheerleader have known each other since they were toddlers, and while Bookish Girl is smart, sheās also desperate for attention and acceptance. Bookish Girl is Cheerleaderās key to victory.
Cheerleader and Bookish Girl sit down after school and go over strategy. Itās clear that the numbers donāt support Cheerleader. All 51 Nerds are pretty sweet on that whole āNerd After School Activitiesā thing. But they arenāt all as firmly dedicated to voting. For one thing, Nerd Boy is not well liked, with no social skills what-so-ever. Heās the kind of guy that doesnāt get a girl easily, and is awkward around girls and does things that can easily be styled as being demeaning and degrading to girls. Nerds are also notoriously flakey when it comes to making appointments when those appointments collide with what they would rather be doing.
Bookish Girl suggests three strategies to Cheerleader. They are:
- Have one of Cheerleaderās groupies make an accusation against Nerd Boy that he inappropriately touched her. This should peel off two girls, who are known feminists.
- Set up a nerdy game on the day of the vote, drawing out a handful of gamers.
- Run Bookish Girl as a third party spoiler, who will say she stands for even more nerdy things so that she can peel off people who think Nerdy Boy canāt or wonāt do the job.
Letās say Election Day, 3 gamers skip out on the vote, one of the feminists stay home on the accusations, and the other, plus two more Nerds, vote for Bookish Girl. The tally of votes comes out to:
- 49 people vote for Cheerleader.
- 44 people vote for the Nerd Boy.
- 4 people do not vote.
- 3 people vote for the Bookish Girl.
Remember what the rules were? The one with the most votes wins. Those 7 kids ended up denying themselves and the 44 other kids the Nerd Boyās platform. Hopefully theyāll enjoy the prom theyāll be excluded from and the constant bullying and teasing by the Jocks, because there will be no book club to go to, or D&D night to play in, or so on.
Really, all Cheerleader needed was for Bookish Girl to run, with a side dose of that other cheerleaderās accusation (letās just call her Tara Readeā¦), and itās 49 to 48 to 3, which is STILL a win for Team Jock. And thatās how narrow our elections are today.
You may think that Harris is a lockin to win, and youāre convinced by someone like this poster that you can vote third party. The problem is you canāt know how many Jocks and Nerds are in this school. Are there 55 Nerds and only 45 Jocks? Can you vote for the Bookish Girl over the Nerd Boy because Nerd Boy did something you donāt agree with in Junior High, or because he dissed your favourite pop culture icon, or heās a GURPS player rather than a D&D player, or so on, and Bookish Girl is idealic? How will you feel when you wake up the next morning and come to school and see that Jocks won 45 to 44 to 11, and you and 10 other people are absolute dufuses who let the nerd activities go by the wayside?
And to make this REALā¦how will you feel come the next morning if you wake up, see your State went to Trump, and thus gave Trump the 270 EVs he needed to win. Remember, Trumpās Jock-favoured activities can be read about in Project 2025ā¦
In conclusion, you shouldnāt listen to dufuses like this poster. We saw what happened last time we let them poison our minds. Your vote CAN get you the absolute worst outcome, and the only people who want that to happen are accelerationists and Trump Plants. Iāll leave it to you to determine what THIS poster is.
Your argument is steeped in fear and defeatism, assuming that the only way to navigate this broken system is to bow down to the two-headed snake that has dominated our political landscape for far too long.
What you fail to see is that every vote for a third party is a stand against the status quo, a demand for something better, and a refusal to be complicit in a system that continually fails the people.
While youāre busy trying to silence voices of real change, Iām fighting for a future where our choices arenāt limited to the lesser of two evils.
I support and respect your right to vote for whoever you choose, just as I expect you to respect my right to do the same. Youāre absolutely entitled to disagree, and that same freedom applies to me as well.
Iāll leave it to you to determine what THIS poster is.
As I have noted in my previous comment, the vast majority of my posts are for workers rights, socialist causes, union issues, and education. Iāve contributed over 200 posts and comments to the Lemmy socialist community I created and that I mod. Iām a member of the Socialist Workers Party, and I support them financially. You can check out the sub here:
https://lemmy.world/c/socialist
and see my post history here:
https://lemmy.world/u/UniversalMonk?page=1&sort=New&view=Posts.
Knowing that Harris and Trump are the only real options in this race and trying to get people to vote for spoilers IS supporting Trump
Supporting a candidate other than Harris or Trump doesnāt automatically equate to supporting Trump. The idea that the only ārealā options are Harris and Trump is a false dilemma. The real problem is the stranglehold the two-party system has on our democracy, stifling any chance of meaningful change. My vote isnāt about choosing between two evilsāitās about standing for the values I believe in. If that threatens the status quo, then so be it.
I second this.
You have the right to vote whoever you want in the election. Hell, I could say I am voting for Harris or Stein here, and do the exact opposite, and nobody would know the difference. You even have the right to try to convince others to change their votes. Thatās actually how a Democracy is supposed to work. But that right extends to everyoneā¦including those of us who think Stein is a spoiler.
Thatās actually how a Democracy is supposed to work.
Exactly. And I can vote for whoever I want as well. Whether the people in this community like it or not. And they donāt. lol
You can! But you know what you donāt have the right to do? Come in here, unchallenged, and say youāre going to vote Third Party. Thatās our freedom of speech telling you youāre a ā¦ ahem, censored for Rule 3 purposes and that nobody should listen to you because you will make things worse for everyone. Between the downvotes and the comments, you should have gotten that. But keep up with that martyr complex! We just need to make sure youāre shouted down by Election Day.